Comments on: What is Wrong with the Church? http://manofdepravity.com/2008/05/16/what-is-wrong-with-the-church/ Theology, Church ministry, Seminary, Worship // Proving that even bad writers get readers. Wed, 17 Mar 2010 03:17:23 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Greg Johnson http://manofdepravity.com/2008/05/16/what-is-wrong-with-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-952 Greg Johnson Sat, 17 May 2008 03:17:57 +0000 http://tylerbraun.wordpress.com/?p=328#comment-952 I don't think the "church" as the Body of Chirst has failed. I do think individual churches have failed when they focus on numbers and finances instead of following Christ in point of need ministry within their city. The Bible tells us that Jesus was in the synagogue on the sabath, "as His custom was." But, where did Jesus minister? He ministered every day at the point of need and He is our example. (1 Peter 2:21 NIV) "To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps." Individuals and churches that follow Christ make up the Body of Christ and they will not fail. Instead of failing, they will impact cities with the love of Christ. gaj I don’t think the “church” as the Body of Chirst has failed. I do think individual churches have failed when they focus on numbers and finances instead of following Christ in point of need ministry within their city.

The Bible tells us that Jesus was in the synagogue on the sabath, “as His custom was.” But, where did Jesus minister? He ministered every day at the point of need and He is our example. (1 Peter 2:21 NIV) “To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.”

Individuals and churches that follow Christ make up the Body of Christ and they will not fail. Instead of failing, they will impact cities with the love of Christ.

gaj

]]> By: Tyler http://manofdepravity.com/2008/05/16/what-is-wrong-with-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-951 Tyler Fri, 16 May 2008 22:58:44 +0000 http://tylerbraun.wordpress.com/?p=328#comment-951 Seth- I thought what you said was spot on. Good call. I think I said a while back on the blog how in class we were talking about the purpose of the church. The end goal was always discipleship, with other things always leading towards discipleship. Ashley- I should have said reformed theology, not traditional, sorry. I guess I'm just tired of hearing how the book changes everything about who God is. I just disagree with that. I'm not even saying that you were saying that. Sorry if I came off as rude. Seth- I thought what you said was spot on. Good call. I think I said a while back on the blog how in class we were talking about the purpose of the church. The end goal was always discipleship, with other things always leading towards discipleship.

Ashley- I should have said reformed theology, not traditional, sorry. I guess I’m just tired of hearing how the book changes everything about who God is. I just disagree with that. I’m not even saying that you were saying that. Sorry if I came off as rude.

]]> By: ash http://manofdepravity.com/2008/05/16/what-is-wrong-with-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-950 ash Fri, 16 May 2008 22:01:22 +0000 http://tylerbraun.wordpress.com/?p=328#comment-950 Lynne, I like your note about relationship...b/c that is what its about. People who do not believe are tired of those who claim to and yet will not be their friends. You cannot earn someone's trust about God if you cannot earn their trust and the human being you were created to be. Fabulous. Lynne, I like your note about relationship…b/c that is what its about. People who do not believe are tired of those who claim to and yet will not be their friends. You cannot earn someone’s trust about God if you cannot earn their trust and the human being you were created to be. Fabulous.

]]> By: ash http://manofdepravity.com/2008/05/16/what-is-wrong-with-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-949 ash Fri, 16 May 2008 21:58:20 +0000 http://tylerbraun.wordpress.com/?p=328#comment-949 Tyler...It's not a conversion attempt. WE believe in the same Jesus who died for our sins...etc. The Shack may be fiction, but I will tell you that I found NOTHING in it that actually contridicts scripture...it's all founded. And I was using it b/c I thought it made a good point and certainly had applicable content to the discussion. That's all..."traditional theology?" Most theology has to do w/ traditional culture and belief, not always the very words of the Bible itself. Just my thougts.... Tyler…It’s not a conversion attempt. WE believe in the same Jesus who died for our sins…etc. The Shack may be fiction, but I will tell you that I found NOTHING in it that actually contridicts scripture…it’s all founded. And I was using it b/c I thought it made a good point and certainly had applicable content to the discussion. That’s all…”traditional theology?” Most theology has to do w/ traditional culture and belief, not always the very words of the Bible itself. Just my thougts….

]]> By: Seth http://manofdepravity.com/2008/05/16/what-is-wrong-with-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-948 Seth Fri, 16 May 2008 21:33:26 +0000 http://tylerbraun.wordpress.com/?p=328#comment-948 I think one of the main things the church has nearly always done wrong is, we're focused on "Go into all the world", and we forget "and make disciples." The church has always gone for increasing numbers of attendees rather than feeding those who are already there. That results in shallow Christianity that seeks to force its image on the rest of the world, rather than presenting Christ to the world through people who actually *look* like him. I think one of the main things the church has nearly always done wrong is, we’re focused on “Go into all the world”, and we forget “and make disciples.” The church has always gone for increasing numbers of attendees rather than feeding those who are already there. That results in shallow Christianity that seeks to force its image on the rest of the world, rather than presenting Christ to the world through people who actually *look* like him.

]]> By: Tyler http://manofdepravity.com/2008/05/16/what-is-wrong-with-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-947 Tyler Fri, 16 May 2008 20:49:34 +0000 http://tylerbraun.wordpress.com/?p=328#comment-947 Ash- I hear everyone saying The Shack smacks in the face of traditional, conservative theology. My answer to that is along the lines of.....a fictional book is never going to make me change how I feel about who God is, and no earthly event should force me to re think the Biblical truth of who God is. I do not mean that in a cocky way, but rather that I feel convincing about who God is through the Bible more than life, and while life is really really messed up it doesn't have to change how I think about God. Yes our conversation is some kind of weird, internet church. I do not think you can ever replace meeting face to face, the dynamic is too cool, but so is blogging. Very cool. Jay-I think you are dead on. I'm not trying to point the finger at others as to why the church is viewed with such negativity. It can only start with me. Lynne-this is my mom in law folks. Cant wait to see you in a few months. I think you are right on as well. Part of the root of this problem is being selfish and not outwardly focused. Ash- I hear everyone saying The Shack smacks in the face of traditional, conservative theology. My answer to that is along the lines of…..a fictional book is never going to make me change how I feel about who God is, and no earthly event should force me to re think the Biblical truth of who God is.
I do not mean that in a cocky way, but rather that I feel convincing about who God is through the Bible more than life, and while life is really really messed up it doesn’t have to change how I think about God.
Yes our conversation is some kind of weird, internet church. I do not think you can ever replace meeting face to face, the dynamic is too cool, but so is blogging. Very cool.

Jay-I think you are dead on. I’m not trying to point the finger at others as to why the church is viewed with such negativity. It can only start with me.

Lynne-this is my mom in law folks. Cant wait to see you in a few months. I think you are right on as well. Part of the root of this problem is being selfish and not outwardly focused.

]]> By: lynne http://manofdepravity.com/2008/05/16/what-is-wrong-with-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-946 lynne Fri, 16 May 2008 19:49:15 +0000 http://tylerbraun.wordpress.com/?p=328#comment-946 "Friendly fire". (wounding our own) Legalism. Tradition. (treating it like Biblical truth) Lack of humility. Rejecting the sin we see in others, and not seeing them through Jesus's eyes, for their true worth... Existing in cliques. Only greeting and seeing the same faces each Sunday. Remembering past hurts. Not taking advantage of open doors throughout our week, for deep conversation with others. Not taking time to creatively re-invent what we need to do to be relevant to reach our present day culture. Let's put ourselves in an unbelievers mind.....what would bring them into a church building to attend a service? Without a meaningful friendship with someone who's invited them, through genuine kindness and warmth, it is doubtful that they'll step foot inside. Without the Spirit of God, to re-direct their yearnings, why would they seek any change? Are we willing to be their friend, and direct them to OUR best FRIEND, and to our gathering place to worship him? Sometimes, we are just too preoccupied with our own lives to have peripheral vision. “Friendly fire”. (wounding our own)
Legalism.
Tradition. (treating it like Biblical truth)
Lack of humility.
Rejecting the sin we see in others, and not seeing them through Jesus’s eyes, for their true worth…
Existing in cliques.
Only greeting and seeing the same faces each Sunday.
Remembering past hurts.
Not taking advantage of open doors throughout our week, for deep conversation with others.
Not taking time to creatively re-invent what we need to do to be relevant to reach our present day culture.

Let’s put ourselves in an unbelievers mind…..what would bring them into a church building to attend a service? Without a meaningful friendship with someone who’s invited them, through genuine kindness and warmth, it is doubtful that they’ll step foot inside.
Without the Spirit of God, to re-direct their yearnings, why would they seek any change? Are we willing to be their friend, and direct them to OUR best FRIEND, and to our gathering place to worship him?
Sometimes, we are just too preoccupied with our own lives to have peripheral vision.

]]> By: Jay McKenney http://manofdepravity.com/2008/05/16/what-is-wrong-with-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-945 Jay McKenney Fri, 16 May 2008 18:51:59 +0000 http://tylerbraun.wordpress.com/?p=328#comment-945 awesome post Tyler. I think lately I have been realizing that the reason the church has failed so much is found not in others, or certain congregations, or denominations, but the greatest failure of the church is first traced to me. I truly believe that if it starts there, an introspective look within on where I am personally not lining up with God's plan for the church, that holds the greatest potential for revival and change. Quick note on the Shack, didn't he cowrite the book with a noteable theologian? I remember reading about that but the details are fuzzy right now in my brain. I saw the midnight showing of Prince Caspian last night. awesome post Tyler. I think lately I have been realizing that the reason the church has failed so much is found not in others, or certain congregations, or denominations, but the greatest failure of the church is first traced to me. I truly believe that if it starts there, an introspective look within on where I am personally not lining up with God’s plan for the church, that holds the greatest potential for revival and change.

Quick note on the Shack, didn’t he cowrite the book with a noteable theologian? I remember reading about that but the details are fuzzy right now in my brain. I saw the midnight showing of Prince Caspian last night.

]]> By: ash http://manofdepravity.com/2008/05/16/what-is-wrong-with-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-944 ash Fri, 16 May 2008 18:01:18 +0000 http://tylerbraun.wordpress.com/?p=328#comment-944 Of course Young is not a theologian. But who's talking "theology" here? Relationship w/ the Most High is not Theology and I think Young has done the BEST job, through a fictional piece, at showing the nature of God. The reason this work is controversial among so many Christian people is b/c of the way God shows up....and b/c it doesn't stick to traditional thought, which is my point. You should read the book, might blow you away (wink). But here is something else to consider, THIS is the church. You and I and the people who've entered this discussion, it is the church stirring one another...cool, huh? Of course Young is not a theologian. But who’s talking “theology” here? Relationship w/ the Most High is not Theology and I think Young has done the BEST job, through a fictional piece, at showing the nature of God. The reason this work is controversial among so many Christian people is b/c of the way God shows up….and b/c it doesn’t stick to traditional thought, which is my point. You should read the book, might blow you away (wink).

But here is something else to consider, THIS is the church. You and I and the people who’ve entered this discussion, it is the church stirring one another…cool, huh?

]]> By: Thoughts on Belief | Visual Coma http://manofdepravity.com/2008/05/16/what-is-wrong-with-the-church/comment-page-1/#comment-943 Thoughts on Belief | Visual Coma Fri, 16 May 2008 16:53:26 +0000 http://tylerbraun.wordpress.com/?p=328#comment-943 [...] What is Wrong with the Church? [...] [...] What is Wrong with the Church? [...]

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