Loud Music

2009 February 17

by Tyler

Loud music and bad lyrics.

I think that is how John Stackhouse would describe today’s worship music being played in churches.

I recently came across an article he wrote for Christianity Today about the problem with loud music in churches. You can read that article HERE.

I’ve done my best to try and be even handed in writing this because my first reaction was straight up negative. Let me also say that I greatly respect John’s opinion. He is a well educated and even handed man, and works at a well respected school.

In his article about loud music he has 5 points for why loud music in churches is bad.

It is a cheap trick for forcing energy into a room.
It covers up bad musicianship.
Most church sound systems can’t handle it.
It turns older generations against you.
The music being written today is too simplistic and repetitive.

The key thesis of his article is this:

“But when you are leading us in singing, then lead us in singing. And turn it down so we are not listening to you—or, even worse, merely enduring you. I know that is not what you want to happen. But I am telling you that’s what is happening.”

Here are some of my thoughts:

I would say that his first 4 points are generally very true.
As far as I know you can’t get any ear damage unless your ears are around levels of 110db or above (which is really loud) for a long time. My church usually runs around 95db for our loudest service. I still think it isn’t loud enough.
I prefer the music to be loud enough for me to hear myself singing and not hear my neighbor when a song is in full gear. It invites a sense of God and worshiping him being all around me and no other noise distractions (my neighbor) in the way. I think that level is probably about 100 db, which isn’t damaging your ears.
When older people talk about music hurting their ears, it is actually true. Ear drums break down with age and louder music hurts. So what one person calls loud, is probably not loud to someone else.
His last point makes no sense to me. Throughout the rest of the article he argues for music being enjoyable to sing with, but point number 5 makes it sound like he wants complicated music and wordings. That is a contradiction in my book. Oh and I don’t think I would describe today’s music as simplistic. He should talk to some of the musicians I play with. They practice a lot just to be able to pull off some of the songs.
It is common knowledge that many hymns were written to bar tunes and were written in the language of the culture at that time. So when we write songs today it isn’t a bad thing if they reflect today’s musical sound and language.
I have yet to be to a church that is as loud or louder than most concerts I’ve been to (including worship concerts). Maybe churches aren’t loud enough to be relevant to culture.

Ok now it is your turn to have an opinion.

(Tomorrow: Bad Lyrics)

Filed under: the rest... Tags: worship

http://ash-nits.blogspot.com ash

well i’m all for the simple guitar djimbe and vocalist style which are perhaps quieter on the ears. a simple drum circle can be really powerful. but i’m a music person …passionate about the stuff and have been to plenty of churches conferences and a youth group where “consuming fire” was loud strong and focused to say that i love it loud. and some of the simplest chord progressions can have greatest impact in music so i don’t quite understand why the guy is concerned with the “complexity” of the song.
http://www.theREALrachelrowell.com Rachel Rowell

haha! I LOVE it. Great job breaking down the arguments for us. Well said. Can’t wait for tomorrow’s thoughts on bad theology.
http://tangzine.wordpress.com Matt Ralph

If turning down the volume of worship requires an electronic drumset I’ll take too loud any day. Fake drums should be banned from worship.
http://jaymckenney@typepad.com Jay McKenney

I don’t know what Bible you guys read, but mine says, in Hezekiah 4:88 that style of music, and volume of music, and complexity of music, is one of God’s top agenda items for the church today, and if you want to find out how to please God, get these things right. If we can somehow nail the formula on those things, and get them perfect, everyone would be happy, thousands would give their life to Christ, the economy would turn around, and we would reduce our global footprint by up to two sizes.
Jay (that was actually so much fun to write)
http://www.fredmckinnon.com Fred McKinnon

Tyler,
I think there is a lot of wisdom in John’ article, at the same time, I think our culture plays a lot into it – and of course, our church’s culture.

I like it to be loud, too – and I’ve been pushing and begging for permission for us to fill our big ole’ 1,000 seat room up to the higher 90′s or low 100′s … mid 100′s on peaks. Why? Because I’ve found that people seem to be less inhibited when the sound is bigger and fuller.

I’ve also learned that more times than not, someone complaining that the volume is too loud is really trying to say there is something in the mix that hurts their ears … it’s rarely overall db levels; rather, an issue of EQ or something else too hot in the mix.

Case in point – I know of older people who have decided it’s “too loud” as soon as they hear live drums … yet, the volume is 85 db in the room. A pipe organ with “all the stops open” playing the Vidor as a recessional is piping 105db, and that same person thinks it’s wonderful.

All that to say – I think I may do an acoustic-only set … soon.
Fred
http://manofdepravity.com Tyler

Matt- Totally agree man. In the 90s every church was doing it. I’m glad to know that fad didn’t last too long.

Jay- Should I really comment back to that comment? Wow

Fred- Yeah we talk about this a lot. It is never the level of volume but the composition of it. What is the sound that it creating the noise? If it is piano or organ or orchestra that is great, but if it is electric guitar or drums, then people get mad. Generally I would say that is pure bias toward different instruments, but I do use generally…because that isn’t always the case. I totally agree with you on fullness of sound with louder volume. I think it adds a lot, and not just “fake energy” as John would describe it. Oh…and I love your last line
http://www.aworshipfulheart.typepad.com janowen

your answers and questions are deeper than this but here goes: I like it loud! Not always and in every instance, but to be able to really play and really sing out gives me some freedom in worship to PROCLAIM and SHOUT HIS PRAISES – which there is definitely a place for.. I think there is time for both – contemplative and declarative moments – moments of soft adoration and stillness and moments of joyous celebration and exuberance.
http://religionsucketh.com Jonathan

Just my two cents, but being a former front of house engineer I will tell you that a bad mix at 85db can actually sound louder than a great mix at 95db. Mainly because in a bad mix a particular element or even frequency could be standing out instead of blending and it suddenly becomes the focal point. I’ve visited churches where the decibels were nowhere near 90 but I had to cover my ears because the mix was causing physical pain. But then I would attend 7|22 at Buckhead Church in Atlanta and they could run 100db and I’d never even realize until I talked to the FOH engineer after service.
Yonas

If John Stackhouse thinks that Christian worship music is loud here, he must’ve never been to Asia…they’re tearing it up over there. Speaking from experience (family business).

I personally like loud music, especially in hard keys, I can just act as if I was playing, and let the rest of the musicians do the rest!
Kirk

I agree with all his points. Most music in church (at least at Sunset) tends to me a bit too loud. But then again, I’m a 38 year old white guy.. so what do I know ;}

I like my worship music to set a more contemplative stage.. where I can reflect and be close to God. Loud banging music does just the opposite to me.
Levi

I’m comment after reading both this Stackhouse post and the next about lyrical criticism.
My initial reaction was, “a complaint about volume for the apparent reasons given is shallow.” After reading his post concerning volume I tended to actually agree with a point he makes in the post, which I’ll get to in a moment. After reading his post on lyrics and his subsequent follow-up comments, I am back to my original assessment of HIS posts – complaining about volume or literary standards within lyrics is shallow.
I’ll comment my thoughts about lyrics on the other one of your posts, but as for volume – here’s my two cents…

I think Stackhouse brings up one very important point in his post (however, it is not his main point or his foundational reasoning for writing his post). This is the element of a community of worship. I think picking at the *practicalities* of how to manipulate this core philosophy is outmoded, nobody likes to be manipulated into relationship (he points out turning up the volume as manipulation into energy, but I find that if your reason for turning down the volume is to manipulate people into “community” it is a far more severe betrayal of trust).

Tyler, I would challenge (not the heart behind, more as another way to think of) your approach to and implication of your comment, “…hear myself singing and not hear my neighbor…” Again, not to discount the positive effect this would have on the individual of inviting “…a sense of God and worshiping him being all around me and no other noise distractions…” Rather, I would encourage any worship leader to consider the role of herself as well as the role of every worshiper, and our reason for coming together in the first place. I believe that we worship together specifically as an expression of our unity in Christ, and that to focus a practice during our community time on isolation is possibly out of place. I believe that worshiping God takes different forms at different times, and that there is a time to eliminate the “distractions” of our neighbor; but I think that something we can miss out on is the concept of worshiping together.

I rarely post comments, but I read your blog all of the time because I appreciate your approach to every subject you interact with. This post is no different. I offer my suggestion, again not as correction or disagreement with what you have posted, but as another facet of this topic as it possibly relates to turning those amps up to eleven (which, if you ask me was not to mask the sheer awesomeness of Christopher Guest’s guitar playing).
All the best,
Levi
http://manofdepravity.com Tyler

I hear what you are saying Levi and totally appreciate it. I really don’t think that volume creates or detracts from any sort of community. If that is what it takes for community to prosper through music, I think we’ve all really missed the mark. It is still possible to hear the congregation singing in quiet parts of songs.

As far as being a worship leader…that is tougher because it is a heart issue. Anyone can judge a worship leader as being full of himself/herself or up there with the wrong intentions, but the reality lies in the heart. Thanks for your thoughts though, I think you are definitely on to something.
Levi

Yeah, I think that is what I was aiming at in my assessment of Stackhouse’s post. Namely that, if volume is what is getting in the way – too loud or too soft – we have missed the heart of what our actions and practices mean.
I just thought that he made a good (if passing) point when he says, “…when you are leading us in singing, then lead us in singing.” I don’t think it fits in with the rest of his reason for a decreased volume (at first I did, I thought he was going deep with a good philosophical reason for lowering volume, but then I read his *ahem* rant about lyrics… my only conclusion is that his focus and energy is being exhausted on aspects of our modern worship services which are more about taste than quality).

As a worship leader I know when I am in a worship service where we are worshiping together, or when we are simply the show on stage. This has nothing to do with volume. As you said, Tyler, it is a heart issue not only for the worship leader but for the congregation as well.
Ron Watkins

The problem with churches today, Is,that leadership is allowing the younger generation to dominate the music & the worship, so all that we are getting is a bounch of words with chords attached and ear splitting volume that only the younger generation can relate to,and by the way i am not an older person, please don’t msunderstand me, I am not against young people been involved in worship, but there has to be some consideration for the generation before us.
Ron Watkins

Couldn’t Agree with you more
Kelly Hardin

There is a limit on how loud music in church should be. We have a coffee shop in our church and have music nights on the last Saturday of each month, but a lot of the people we invite(even family) don’t come back because you can be standing right next to someone shouting in their ear and they still can’t hear you. How is that following the Bible that says “To do everything to the Glory of God?” 1 Corinthians 10:31
If I can’t even witness to someone about Christ what is the point? Our band even recently blew a $1400 speaker! Tell me that was to God’s Glory! If we are excluding people from coming to worship God solely because of music volume-SHAME ON US! This is not the mind set of Christ. People who “Like it loud” will not care if the volume is turned down, but if it hurts someone’s ears they can’t change that. The Bible does say to loudly praise God-but they didn’t have 1000 watt speakers to do it with!!
Mike West

There is little scripture that has been sited in justification of our new technological sound systems that can blast sound to thunderous levels. God designed thunder to warn us of the danger of lightning, although too late on the initial strike there is something abnormal about high volumes. A shout last an instant but does any one continually shout and scream to communicate with each other? Sadly, we are trading our souls for technology that pushes away the word and message of God. Jay McKenny did leave a scriptural response saying
“”I don’t know what Bible you guys read, but mine says, in Hezekiah 4:88 that style of music, and volume of music, and complexity of music, is one of God’s top agenda items for the church today, and if you want to find out how to please God, get these things right. If we can somehow nail the formula on those things, and get them perfect, everyone would be happy, thousands would give their life to Christ, the economy would turn around, and we would reduce our global footprint by up to two sizes”".
Where is Hezekiah 4:88 found in the Bible???
As a temple musician and profession musician who has played with hundreds of groups in several countries the sweetest and most inspiration music that I ever heard in my life came from an African group singing a capella outside a building between a forest in a parking lot. Their souls and voices projected sweet praises to our Creator God. The next time a natural disaster knocks out the electric power, like a hurricane or ice storm, I will be praising Our Creator God and Lord Jesus with the my voice and acoustic instruments in Spirit and in truth as well as in the new heaven and earth too.
@realpb

hahahaha, one of the above comments just made me laugh out loud. hilarious.
http://www.manofdepravity.com Tyler

Jay’s comment was supposed to be funny.
@realpb

just had a thought. i wonder what it would be like to be a nomad, live in a tent out in the desert, and be around hundreds (thousands?) of dudes that play nomadic type instruments, with a lot of cymbals and drums, and they all start banging on them because they were moved and filled with the spirit of YHWH. i think it would be awesome, kind of like a military band in front of an army ready to kick some ass. rock on, nomadic shepherd dude, rock on…
Ed

I’ve been playing for a fairly small church for 7 years now.
I try to cover a lot of ground musically. Jazz, Rock, Classical, Reggae,World, New Age. I have a fairly nice Synth set-up with Drums, loops,weird sounds. I’ve been playing for almost 40years and I enjoy playing things that may be kind of “out there” for some people, but i want to keep it interesting if I can.

I also play for free so I feel I should be able to stretch it out sometimes. If you wait long enough I’ll cover something you like. We have 80 year olds and 30 year olds attend our services. They probably won’t ever like everything I do.

For awhile I was getting regular complaints about my volume and to tell the truth I was getting very upset.I almost resigned at one point.

I noticed a pattern that even when I tried to turn down a bit I was still getting complaints. It was only when I went with older material that the static died down.

I’ve since gone back to “mixing it up” and haven’t heard much from the always “anonymous” complainers for a while now. I’ve kind of hoped they’ve moved on.

It’s ironic I’m still dealing with this at age 52.