Things I've Learned about Church as a PK .3 of 5
3. It is not the church’s job to bring you to spiritual maturity.
Almost every Sunday afternoon my family and I would come home from church and have lunch together. My dad was always ask what we remembered from his message. Test time!!! Eek. I probably had a 50% rate of remembering something valuable. I know that is bad, but what strikes me about that is how much I would forget quickly. Is that because the messages were bad? Of course not. Was that because the church did a poor job of leading me closer to God? No way.
Part of the whole seeker movement was to allow a nonbeliever a chance to accept Jesus and gradually make them a fully devoted follower of Him. The church made this their job. I think this is partially wrong. Think about the pressure my dad would have felt if he had to take the congregation to spiritual maturity (whatever that is) every Sunday. God was merely using my dad and the church to bring about His message in that time and place.
I know some of you are thinking that the only job of the church is to bring its congregation to spiritual maturity, so I’ve really rattled you and you are confused. One big problem with this is that spiritual maturity isn’t objective…we can’t simply rate whether someone is spiritually mature or not. Even though I didn’t pay attention to my dad’s messages well enough when I was younger, God might have been doing something in my heart that was bigger than anything happening in the church or anything my dad was saying. Clearly during that time I didn’t take my relationship with Christ seriously enough-even now I probably don’t. Should I blame that on churches I’ve gone to?
Obviously the church plays a role as people continue to grow in their relationship with God, but it just isn’t fair to say that people going to church should rely on the church to bring them to spiritual maturity. That really comes down to a person’s decision based on their relationship with God.
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Tyler Braun.
good thoughts Tyler. i think when people realize that the church is not the sole place to find God and grow in their faith, they will grow that much more. Following God is a lifestyle, not a Sunday ritual that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside (although it sometimes does that to us)
I take a lot of pride in my church because we constantly remind ourselves that if we are only coming to church and living for God during the 90 minutes service, we are wrong and have missed the point.
You’re touching on the expectations that attending church and listening or remembering a sermon = spiritual maturity. I agree that it’s not the church’s job or reponsibility for our spiritual maturity however the difficulty in measuring spiritual maturity isn’t a sufficient reason to not expect it or look for it.
It is the church’s purpose to grow each member but we generally think of “the church” as the staff or leaders instead of community or family that we are part of seven days a week, not just the 90 minutes on Sunday.
Like Paul says in Ephesians
“From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.”
Good lessons learned, looking forward to 4 and 5.
Sovann-
I get what you are saying and totally agree. I wasn’t trying to equate the 90 minutes on Sunday as much as I was saying that it really comes down to a personal decision to draw closer to God. Churches help us do this, but the main reason people become spiritually mature happens on their own.
Just wanted to let you know that I love this series you are doing. I grew up a PK as well and I can totally relate. Great insights. looking forward to the last 2.
Brent
Oh I forgot to mention: recovering PK/MK here [raises hand].
Tyler, you’re rattling cages a bit but you’re not dishing the real dirt (j/k).
From what you’ve learned, since you are in ministry and preparing for full-time ministry, what will you do different? In church and in family? Besides being really okay with saying “NO”.
Ha, yeah I am ok with saying no unless saying yes is what God is telling someone to do. What would I do different….
I don’t know that I have really objective and concrete answers to that. I desire to be authentic and I think a lot of things flow from that. That is something I’ll have to ponder more to see if I can think of more concrete things.
Tyler, help me to understand what you mean by being authentic.
Well one problem I had or have with seeker services is that they tend to come off as inauthentic to me. Sing fun songs, make yourself feel good. This isn’t a message that resonates with me. I would rather be real about life and the toughness of it. That is basically what I meant by it.
Thanks for sharing.
I think I meant more though … What does it mean to be an authentic believer (or non believer). Is it just being truthful or the opposite not-fake?
Then of course, by categorizing people, you run the risk of assuming that someone that either loves fun songs and getting in a good mood is different then the person that likes to have a stonewall face and not let people in. Both could be authentic …. which is why I am mostly wondering what you believe makes a person “authentic”.
I think for me authenticity is shown in everyday life. Many people proclaim Jesus, few show him in the way they live. This goes back to the post on people living double lives. Obviously no one is completely authentic, and it is impossible to know the exactness of someone’s heart.
So how does this view of authenticity affect my view of seeker sensitive services….well I think they make us feel good about us, rather than seeing how we need to change. Being real and honest with ourselves. They cater to comfort, rather than change.
Thought I’d jump in. Good discussion.
I’m with you Tyler that daily lifestyle shows to be evidence. It can’t clearly prove anything, cause like you said, you can gauge the heart. But it’s nice to see people displaying who Jesus is in their lives to others.
Regarding “seeker” churches, I think that term is starting to outdate itself. I know of churches that are still, truly, seeker. In terms of watering down everything including the message so as to attract un-churched. But, there are many no that would be considered “seeker” that don’t fit that bill at all.
I had a chance to hang out with some leaders at a church last year that would be considered seeker, but if you were to attend a service, you would find that the message and Biblical teaching was there in full force. The personality, that gains their reputation as a seeker church, has more to do with feel and style than what is said or taught.
Second paragraph typo…sorry.
Should read, But there are many now..
For me, I have understood a seeker service as being one that eliminates any unnecessary barriers for non-believers, so that they can engage as best they can in the service. How I have seen this played is more aesthetic and culture – have words of music on screen, music style is more contemporary (like early 80’s! jab jab), preaching style is one that replaces hard to comprehend words (like greek and hebrew! or other words that are packed with traditional flavoring, maybe even dress code is not business attire, etc.
I know some have watered down things, but I have not found that generally true (like in ‘inWorship’s response). I remember when churches started moving to seeker “sensitive” and think for the most part it is still a viable way of reaching out (definitely not the only way).
Watered down is a term I have grown to dislike. Didn’t Jesus water-down his divinityness (my word) when he came down to us so that he would be more relevant to us with out frying us with his glory? Now, I know I speak from a very conservative upbringing and not knowing where the rest come from, we could have a different point of view.
I think “seeker service” is an outdated term, not that churches don’t do this, it just isn’t used much anymore.
I’ll post more on this topic in a week or so, but I think postmodern individuals feel different about church than how seeker services generally work. postmoderns want to treat spiritually seriously. bring people in, not by making them comfortable, but by showing them Christianity by diving into tough subjects in the message and by having time to respond in music. even beyond this, emerging services cater to giving people individual time when they don’t have to stand and sing, or listen, but just time alone.
that is kind of a bland explanation. i need to work through some of my thoughts more before I do a post on this, but generally I think this is true. seeker services make it easier for a nonbeliever. emerging type of services make it almost uncomfortable for a nonbeliever.
Based a couple views of “seeker” even in this post, we can definitely throw that label out.
“diving into tough subjects in the message ”
That’s the key for me. I really enjoy and appreciate all sorts of different styles and personalities, but I am eager to see churches challenge. I don’t feel like people should walk away from a service unless they’ve been challenged to a point of decision in their faith…whatever that may be.