Song Selection/Multi-Generational Church: The Life of a Worship Pastor
I got an email last Monday from a couple who attend (most often) our 11am service at Sunset. It was in response to the acoustic weekend I helped lead on June 7th (I have received permission to post their email).
Hi Tyler-
First of all I want to express my appreciation as to how the worship service was conducted yesterday. This is the first Sunday morning that I can recall, that a worship service was conducted without snare drums, piano and a keyboard. Nice change of pace especially for the 11:00 service.
I would like to offer a suggestion regarding song selections. As you were commenting several times throughout the songs to sing out, I believe it is also important that you select songs that people can really sing and praise at the same time. Case in point, was the first song. My wife and I both felt that most of the congregation didn’t connect with the song. As I looked around, many were not singing and were unfamiliar with the lyrics and music. You could have possibly started with a Bill Gaither song or a Michael W. Smith or with “Majesty” written by Jack Hayford. If you want your congregation to connect from the get go, then I would start with a familiar song. The first song that was sung could have been your second song. By the way, some of our old standards are still GREAT songs to use for a communion style service.
Anyway, these are mere suggestions, and ideas to possibly use in the future. I come from a ministerial family that has worked in churches for over 60 years. Like I said from the outset, I liked the format that was used and the sincerity that you portrayed. You definitely have a real gift from the Lord.
Some thoughts of mine:
- These emails and comments are definitely not uncommon, nor would I expect them to be. I know when I get a response like this that people care. I’d much rather be at a church where people care than a church full of people who are unhappy and never say anything.
- I don’t know who Jack Hayford is, and I don’t think I’ve ever listened to Bill Gaither (though I have heard of him). If my church is trying to reach all ages, I should probably know that music.
- Most of you would probably say Gaither/MWS/Jack Hayford music is not relevant enough to be used today. I wonder if being relevant is all it is cracked up to be. I doubt everyone in church listens to the kind of music I do. And it is isn’t like the songs that kids are listening to sound anything like Hillsong or Chris Tomlin. Maybe we’ve all totally missed the “relevant” mark.
How would you respond to this comment?
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Tyler Braun.
Your last thought is right on the money IMO. I also like that you bring up the challenge of being a multi-generational church. How these things are balanced out needs to be thought over much more, as the stock answer is generally a nicer version of “old people, get over it, we’re going with what the younger folks like.”
Glad to see you bringing up how we reflect on multi-generational church difficulties bro!
I’d like to compliment both the letter writer and yourself for being affirming and respectful, as you both wrestle with how to ‘connect’ with a diversely preferenced group of believers.
I didn’t really take the letter to be all that positive as I saw someone wanting what they wanted.
Worship leaders have it rough because there is no such thing as balance. Everything cannot be equal. But a local congregation can get a sense of what their “gathered personality” is like and fit the music style to that as best as possible.
Christians tend to show their selfishness a great deal in the worship service. We want what we want how we want it … during worship service! Amazing self-indulgence! If what we find ourselves in is a service where Christ is being exalted, then forget about ourselves and join in!
I respectfully disagree with ya Scotty. I’m going through the same thing. I’m 23 and I know a lot of older songs as well as knew. When you’re dealing with new Christians and old Christians the words “new” and “old” don’t mean anything. What’s old to experienced Christians is brand spanking new to new Christians.
This gentleman who wrote the letter was also observing everyone else… not just himself. He noticed that the majority weren’t into it. This happened to me the last two weeks and one of my trusted vocalists noticed it as well.
I too appreciate people’s feedback because it shows they care. I’d rather get constructive criticism than “that was great” every Sunday.
Peace,
Tim Kolb
Worship Leader
Churchill Meadows Christian Church
Mississauga, ON, Canada
I totally agree with your thoughts here. And I agree with the comment above regarding the respect given.
So, what was your response to them
My opinion is that, even though you are both respectful of each other and you both can learn from this, A decision still has to made whether you are going to start every new song with a Jack Hayford or Michael W Smith tune. Even with the well written and intended letter, there still comes an assumption, by the writer, that you will take this to heart and in doing so, make changes. If they don’t see or hear these changes, are you comfortable with them not being happy and leaving because of it?
My response was pretty short. I shared about my lack of knowledge about the artists they mentioned. I tend to gravitate towards music I listen to when leading at church.
The couple and myself are planning on getting together hopefully next week to chat about this.
Great response, Tyler. Bringing this discussion to a face-to-face meeting is a great next step.
I’ve heard the “they need to play songs everybody knows” critique of worship leaders a lot over the years and whenever I hear it I always wonder what exactly “songs everybody knows” are.
I often conclude that it more or less is referring to songs the person making the comment likes since there really is no such thing as a list of songs every single person in a congregation would a. know b. like and c. prefer being done in the musical style it is being played in.
EVERYBODY knows the music I like
Great point Matt. If I had my way we would do a bunch of acoustic singer songwriter songs on Sundays. Ultimately I try and do songs that are singable for the non musicians and approachable by a lot of people.
Awesome. Man, I can totally relate to this.
Deep, deep down, I know that to some degree, the author of that letter is right. First, however, you have to define … “are we a multi-generational church”? That’s a question every worship leader MUST ASK themselves … and not just the WL, but the Senior Leadership of the ministry.
There are some churches who will say “nope, we’re reaching x generation” with no shame. I wouldn’t dare judge that.
But … if we truly want to be multi-generational, you have to take into account what they said.
Just hope that they’ll be equally as flexible at learning the NEW songs as well.
FM
Good point Fred. And I would also say that the church that tries to be all things to all people is in for a very tough road, especially from a music standpoint. Generally I feel like the people I work with and myself have a good grasp of the kinds of songs a lot of people can connect with. I tend to want to stick with that…and I guess that could be selfish thinking.
PS: forgot to check the follow-up comments box, so I’m just adding this comment so I can subscribe to the comments.
Excellent post. I tend to think that the email was cordial on the surface, yet somewhat disrespectful. But I think you handled it well.
Interestingly, on Sunday we decided to give out a “Worship Survey.” This was given to everyone who attended. We asked questions like “How often do you listen to worship/CCM music?”, “Who do you listen to?”, “Do you prefer new, fresh songs or familiar, comfortable songs?” We also asked about preferred styles (piano, guitar-driven, hymns, gospel) and recommendations. We’re going to give it a few weeks to get surveys in. (like in business, the first surveys in will be the complainers.)
I hear what you’re saying. I lead Worship in 1st (of 3) services. That’s not easy. Many times we (worship leaders) feel the people ought to offer a “sacrifice” of praise, whether they know (or like) the song, but we too need to be those that are able to sacrifice the songs that we like, or that are really hot right now. ‘Tis So Sweet isn’t my favorite song, but many older people may enter-in on it. A good worship leader should touch both Heaven and earth.
Well, and also … just think of it this way …
If week after week … you attended an environment where you seldom had the joy of singing along to a song that captured the style that you delight in … how would we feel?
I remember once, in the 90’s renewal movement … I was sooooo very much into Vineyard stuff …. Brownsville stuff, etc … loving all those revival songs. I went to a worship night where a bunch of the youth came together and everything they played was a hard rock, loud, banging style … and about 3/4 way through, I thought to myself “oh man, I wish they’d just sing ‘Draw me Close’” or something like that – and immediately, I heard the Holy Spirit say “that’s how _____ and _____ feel every Sunday when you lead worship” (fill in the blanks with some of those thorns in the side who complain about song selection).
Just saying ….
Granted, that event was targeted and geared for that age demographic – the kids loved it, I was OK for a while, but eventually, miserable – and I’m a pretty open-to-the-new kinda guy.
Good point Fred. As difficult as it is to reach all ages in an impactful way, I do still believe it is possible.
Hey man – wow. We should chat about this. I’m thinking that you and I are in VERY similar situations with our congregations.
We make no attempt to be relevant. We play no cover songs. I have an electric guitar player once every six weeks. By modern worship standards, we are NOT very cool at all.
But.. When our people are ON (by our people, I mean our congregation – not our band) holy crap do they SING! You should hear them – from the front to the back they have got it going on. And we have developed a repertoire of songs that is relevant (in the right way) to every generation – those who have paved the way, those who are taking up most of the seats, those who are having babies and those who will leave our church once they graduate high school.
Singing songs relevant to every generation means I have to play the BEST songs from the late 19th and early 20th century. I have to find the BEST songs from the Jesus People era. We sing the BEST songs from the contemporary worship Vineyard explosion in the 90’s and we are continually looking for the BEST songs coming from the church today.
It also means that we are committed to singing songs for future generations – we not only honour and treasure our history, we’re trying to create history, too. So I’m always watching to see what churches and worship leaders are doing new stuff as well as giving a voice to songwriters in our own congregation.
But, no, I’ve never sung Jack Hayford. But.. I did open our Easter Sunday service two years ago with “Because He Lives” (that’s a Gaither tune!) and people were rocking it. Got me some good points with part of our crowd AND it inspired, motivated, freed people up to worship – that’s really the goal at the end of the day.
My bigger point is that we have a pretty narrow vision of what relevant means. My church does have electric guitar on stage almost every weekend, we even have 2 electrics on about half of our weekends. But…I don’t think electric guitar = relevancy.
From the sounds of it, you have hit your groove at your church. What an awesome thing.
PS And every week we must sing one song about hockey. I’m sure you can understand that.
ugh…Canadians. so demanding.
You do that too? LOL
I think I’ll have to introduce a song about cricket or rugby every week.
Never an easy subject to address, however, you guys have done a great job in discussing it with grace! Well done. My only comment is that as worship leaders we need to know our congregation and we need to know the vision of the church: who are we trying to reach – people who are already coming to church? Or those who only come because someone asked them to come? To some degree answering these questions will help us determine the genre of music we use. I think we often try to please everyone and often please no one.
Just my own rambling thoughts.
Love the post!
Great discussion (as always).
We’re very upfront about the fact that we’re all about new music, all the time. And more and more of that is coming from us rather than outside sources (though Hillsong will likely remain our primary source until the songwriters have enough resources to do it full time
)
We also have a big bonus in that while we are very much a multi-generational church (each service will have 80 year olds mixing it with the 2 month olds), most are unchurched before they were saved so don’t know the old songs anyway. As long as we also have some acoustic/quieter moments mixed in with the rawk, we’re all happy.
Though it still makes me laugh that often the most enthusiastic supporters of the big loud fast songs are over 60…
I know, we’re not representative of the norm. There’s nothing normal about us at all…which is likely why I like it so much.
Excellent thoughts here, all.
I too, lead worship at a multi-generational church. It can be an awfully tricky thing trying to pick music that each generation can really embrace. However, I’ve found that modern hymns seem to go well with everyone (including the younger generation.) The modern hyms (think Stuart Townend or Keith and Kristin Getty), have majestic, hymn-like melodies that the older generation can grab ahold of but have words that aren’t quite as….old….as the older hymns.
I think it’s also a matter of how (or if) you teach your congregation about worship. Something that I’ve heard of and would like to do someday is to go through a few months with a completely different musical style every Sunday, just to show that music is a universal, cross-cultural language. I mean, what would happen if someone who was dead-set on singing hymns or classic praise songs there whole lives was plopped down in the middle of a worship service in Africa or China?
It’s our responsibility to patiently teach diversity in worship to and through all generations. After all, all people from every tribe and tongue woship our Lord, not just Americans who like American music.
[...] selection that will serve your entire congregation? There is some great discusion on this topic going on here. I’ve left a comment, but I’ll share my more in-depth thoughts on the subject later [...]
Over the years, from the different churches I’ve led worship at, I’ve learned that there will unfortunately always be complainers about your song choices, instruments, arrangements, etc. The realization that I’ve come to is that the only way for a whole congregation to worship through the whole music time is to get them to worship before the first note is played. This goes for every member of the worship team (and especially the WL), too.
I realize that many people might not think this way, but I believe that we should NOT be relying on the music we play to bring us into a state of worship. If we come to church on Sunday not worshiping already, then we’re bound to be disappointed by something in the service (and let’s face it: the music is always the first thing to receive criticism). If, however, we can teach ourselves and our congregations that worship is more about lifestyle than it is about song choice, then we can pour our hearts out to God with any song (that’s theologically sound, anyway).
That means, as Worship Leaders, we can choose songs from a style that we don’t necessarily like, but that have special significance to some of those older saints in the congregation who would appreciate it. Not only that, but it also means that our congregation members can praise the Lord regardless of the tune, the beat (or the drums!) because they came to church that morning already worshiping, and they recognize that worship is less about what we want and more about giving praise to the Lord.
Realistically, I recognize the difficulty in achieving this goal for a whole congregation, which is why we always need to be sensitive to the needs of the congregation at large (all the while making a stand about who we are as worship leaders and what we expect from ourselves and our congregations), but the underlying goal of discipleship is that we teach each other how to worship without the music so that we see music simply as another part of what we do as worshipers.
Excellent post, by the way, and I really appreciate the discussion that’s going on here. It’s really nice to see a good, productive discussion about this kind of issue.
Okay..so I am not a worship leader…except for singing with 2-3 year old children since they don’t care yet that I can’t carry a tune. Just wanted to share that I enjoyed reading all the comments.
Worship Leaders…keep pouring your heart in to it and be authentic…from a person that thinks musical notes look like spilled ink on a page and only sings very very quietly….your attitude of worship in your own heart makes all the difference. And remember we need extra grace and patience to understand all this ‘music’ stuff!
D.
Thanks for that encouragement Deana.
i think that his comment was kind, considerate and perhaps something to try. maybe next week, start w/ a hymn and then move into the other music. it can’t hurt- esp if it gets people’s attn. a little better to get into the flow of worship.
the first song can often make or break the flow for someone.
and if you already like doing a “hymn in the middle”- no harm in doing two!
bill gaither? eh….i think that mostly reaches a genre of older people rather than a generation. keith green maybe, and like said hymns can be hit….
make it beautiful. but above all, make it glorify God
Song selection is always a difficult but necessary conversation for me. One, because a worship leader must develop in every skill of leading…from picking songs to arranging them, to singing them, to leading them. Two, because true worship is a heart and head integration…and not simply confined to a how to job…
The interesting thing is, that while some will say pick singable and common songs…some will say that they love learning new ones at the beginning…just like some will say that we should pick 2 happy (fast) songs and then 2 sad (slow)songs…just this weekend we had this very discussion after church…the conversation is world wide…I think we need a voice that will, in love, bring some clarity…maybe the Spirit???
The question then for the worship leader as well as the worshipper is…am I pleasing, blessing, and worshipping God-am I picking and leading, singing and worshipping from a heart of Love that wishes no one pain but rather edification and the worship of God…
I do believe that we should take the needs of people into consideration everystep of the process…but ultimately the point is to worship God and to help people do what our flesh…which is opposed to the spirit should do which is worship…beyond words, beyond tempos, beyond talent, and in the spirit Worship God…
People will always have opinions and better and worse ways…but like a prof of mine once said…”we should learn to eat the meat and spit out the bones…but always be obedient to God’s spirit”
Great conversation!
This is something that I have recently been getting emails on as well… The funny point I found was that one woman requested that we do more hymns (not a prob for me…) and when I asked her for a list of the hymns she would like to hear occasionally, well, there wasn’t a single hymn on it! I did get a list of 10 or so CCM songs (5 we had just done in the past 2-3 weeks, 2 I have never heard in my life).
One thing that I have to keep reminding myself is that by the time I teach a new song to our team, I’ve heard it about 20-30 times. By the time the team has learned it and we actually begin teaching it to the congregation, I’ve heard it about 50-60 times and they’ve heard it about 20-30 times. The congregation has heard it once, and we are starting to get tired of it because we’ve been living and breathing it to learn it.
The other challenge that I have is a disconnect between who we WANT to reach, and who is actually filling the pews.
My pastor WANTS to reach out to the 20 & 30-somethings, with or without kids. Who is filling the pews? 40, 50 and 60+ people. I am the youngest person on staff by 9 years, and the only guy on the team that’s younger than me is in high school. There are 3 other couples around my age in the church – in that demographic we are WANTING to reach… and we can’t reach out to them right now, because we have run out of room for the kids!
Multi-generational? Yes. But we are missing that chunk in the middle that we are targeting.
Our worship music is younger, more edgy. Hillsong United, Tomlin, Starfield and Crowder are writers that regularly show up… and any hymns that we do (semi-regularly) are either modern or modernized (which I hear about too “they have stood for generations, why do we need to change them?”). The majority of the 40-50 crowd LOVES them, as do the older ones, but there are a few that were raised in the church and still have memories of standing with a hymnal turned to song 234, and singing out the rich theology that is now hidden in their hearts.
Do I love hymns? Yes. Do I remember Gaither? Yep… but I never liked them when they were the next big thing either. Smitty isn’t really my cup of tea, but there are lots in the church that like his music. Vineyard? Love it… but my pastor doesn’t want to do songs that are over 8 years old. He wants to stay on the leading edge. Besides that, the music that I really love, well, it’s hard to find a God-honoring version of. There are a couple, but not too many, and I can’t picture them used in a church setting.
I’m constantly seeking that balance between old and new, comfortable and challenging, engaging and frustrating. Leading worship and just worshiping alongside them.
Thanks for the discussion!
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