On Day 2 of my trip to the Willow Creek Arts Conference I began the day with 2 sessions ran by Ross Parsley.I talked about the first one here, but I want to highlight the second session because it was phenomenal.
Ross began his talk by saying, “we aren’t good at declaring God’s works to other generations.” Yet God’s word (Psalm 145:4) tells us to do so. Examples of this: Saul never reached out to David and his kingdom began to fall, a dad never reaches out to his son and their relationship is strained after the son leaves the house. (Picture is of me, Ross Parsley, and Jay left to right)
His entire talk from here on centered around the model of the family dinner table. A positive image is when everyone from grandpa to baby are at the table, a negative image is when the parents and kids eat separately.
- Every dinner table has a battleground topic (dating, morality, etc) and that battleground topic at the church is worship.
- “It is easy to have dinner with people just like you.”
- “There is a family dynamic (to church) that we are missing.”
- “We need a church to match the wisdom/experience/resources of age with the energy/enthusiasm/innovation of youth.”
We Need 5 Things
- Churches must learn how to function as a family, embracing those different from them.
- We need cooperation and relationship between young and old.
- Milennials are blessing the church with innovation through technology. We need to embrace that.
- We need respect. Mutual respect.
- Humility. “You can’t use your armor for their battle.” 1st Peter 5:5-6.
My Thoughts: I know at my church and with my job, it is a CONSTANT STRUGGLE to find ways for young and old to not only be around each other, but to reach out to one another. So this topic totally hit home for me. At the same time I don’t know that I necessarily agree with everything he said. I’m still (even 2 weeks later) processing these things.
My question:
(sorry that is a lot of questions)
Creative Chaos @ the Soul.
it’s more than just a “meeting of the young and old”- compromise or “mutual respect”- i believe respect can be gained and lost.i believe some of the “older” generation will not know/understand our “technology.”
but the humility part? i agree with that. people need to be humble w/ there counterparts, willing to learn and exchange ideas, thoughts, prayers etc. in that sense…it is a family. i’m finding that as i get older, my family isn’t always the blood, it’s the heart and the spirit i share with friends, mentors - people i know, that were not born to the same name or blood line. and it’s of all ages- 20’s
30’s, 40’s.
-“We need a church to match the wisdom/experience/resources of age with the energy/enthusiasm/innovation of youth.” - this statement. i’m not sure i agree w/ “matching”- perhaps i’m missing ross’ point. but you’re not always to to match your company. that’s impossible. I think this seems to contridict the statments about humillity and acceptance.
also, that statement is missing fact that i believe age and wisdom do NOT ALWAYS go hand in hand. perhaps more often than not…but i think in the time we live in….well, i’ve seen young have wisdom and older people act childish. again, i think it comes down to the person, their heart, their mental state and how submitted they are to God….
sorry that was so long…brain is moving a mile a minute
The church I am currently at functions just like a family. It is multi-generational and takes care of each other. It wasn’t like that when I first arrived. It took time to change hearts, minds, attitudes. I preached alot of love (1st John), unity, and grace which they had in the past been neglected of and were in dire need. It took time to build relationship and make opportunities to grow closer together as a body. I really hope the church worldwide will catch hold of this same function. I think in alot of churches it is corporate and political which I can’t stand. I don’t think corporatetism and politicalism was ever Jesus desire for the church. It is my prayer that we will be the church described in Acts 2:42-ff. Taking care of one another and encouraging one another, building up the body. Doing what it takes to make a real authentic difference.
Preacherman…
Other than preaching about love, grace, and unity how does your church make that possible? How do you make it happen in your services?
My opinion is that it is 80% impossible to keep the older generation happy while also trying to keep the younger generation energized. That is why I am curious.
I heard Ross Parsley give a similar talk at a worship conference a few years ago and I still talk about it. I love the metaphor of a family at a dinner table learning to eat together. It says that “doing church” is messy.
Connecting old with young needs to relational as well as artistic. Grandma is more willing to listen to “that loud hip hop music” if she’s adopted a pre-teen from the youth group and that’s the kind of music that reaches her adopted granddaughter’s friends.
billy-
love it man, love it.
so the question is how do you get grandma to have a desire to do that. i know very mature believers who just don’t want to do that. how can we (from a music standpoint) encourage that? is it possible?
tyler-
one of things that i always did love about ross is that he always tried to incorportate both the modern worship w/ hymns. it changed up the rotation a bit and gave everyone some way to connect. as for the younger gen.- i think one of things i loved at another place i was at, was how the words to those songs were taught….how powerful they are. “it is well” is one my absolute favorite hymns b/c i have a sense of the passion behind the written words. any correlation of modge podge might be effective in worship.
Tyler,
In my mind a this issue is church-wide. I requires coordination with your youth and children’s people. It requires the pastor preaching Titus 2 from the pulpit (conceptually if not literally).
Musically it’s simple - diversify the selection. Do the hymns or the cheesy 70’s praise song or what ever speaks to the heart of the old. Do the super rocked out, techno, hip hop youth stuff. Just do it at a pace that matches behind the scenes relationships that are being built.
On a pragmatic tip: When I was a youth pastor it was easy to get old people to pray. They’re good at it and love doing it. Get them to pray for youth. Have them pick a specific kid to pray for. When they start praying for those kids their heart starts to soften toward them and it opens the door for relationship.
We us a mixture of tradition and praise songs, lessons life appllications. The older generation at our congregation are pretty open to change which is cool. Rather than putting to much emphasis on worship and its style or format…We or I strive get us to focus on relationships. We had a lot of the older ladies who are San Antonio Spurs Fans so we had some parties during the playoffs and finals last couple of years. The ladies go shopping together. The men play golf and hunt together. I think the key is focusing on relationships and doing things together that are multi-generational.
I know at my parents church they have a Seniors minister, youth and family minister, children’s minister and each ministry does things with own age group. Keeps the youth energized. Yet the youth serve the senior ministry with a banquet or service projects.
Hi,
We’re still sorting through this at Gresham Bible Church.
Sorry, no answers really.
Great questions.
Sovann-
There are no easy, 1-2-3 answers, for sure.
Love it! Everyone needs to be at the table…
Thankfully fuZe (our creative team) is striving really hard at integrating our mad talented youth into as many Sunday elemtns as possible…
Keep up the good work…
thanks tyler! great insights on worship,would you allow me to link this site to my blog.am one of your readers from the Philippines!
Tyler,
Do you think blogging is a part of the solution?
Do lots of people at your church interact with you re: your blog?
How much is blogging a part of your church’s fellowship?
If I’m honest I think my church is way behind the times with technology. I know many people from church read my blog, and I really do hope they see my heart on this. That I desire to bridge the gap. I think many older people think that young people just want to ruin what they did. So I do hope my blog is making or can make a different. Why else would I do it?
Anyway, I hope technology and web 2.0 becomes a bigger part of the solution in the future.
Well, I am a 16 year old worship leader at my church. I lead the main service, and while some older people think it’s odd that I am leading; they usually enjoy it. A church can be a family, and a church body should be a family. Families accept other members styles, so why shouldn’t a church family? I am more comfortable leading songs like what United puts out, but I always try to choose a couple songs that I know people from older generations will enjoy. This past Sunday we sang two hymns, and people of all ages enjoyed it.
Keep the volume to an acceptable level of course, but don’t be afraid to bring back some traditional songs into worship.
Trying new things should not be considered a sacrifice by older generations, but an investment into new generations. Always, always, always invest into the future.
–ash
I totally get that there are some things musically we can do to make the older generation feel satisfied, but church being family has to go a lot deeper than just doing a couple hymns or having a young worship leader. i guess my question, at the deepest level, that i am asking is how to go you get young people to reach out the older and older people to reach out to younger?
Oh ok. =] well, I would say it is a matter of teaching then. If you are looking for a family connection between generations in the church, it is something that will have to be learned. An older woman has no need in her life to reach out to a younger woman unless: it is a call God has placed upon her or an authority (I don’t like using that word, but I couldn’t think of a better one) has asked her to do so. Same goes for a younger person. If the church teaches young generations to respect the foundation that older generations have provided and also teaches older generations to embrace the creativity and continuation of young generations, then I believe that a connection can and will be made.
What I meant by investing is, allowing the will of God to be pushing toward the next generation. Hold onto what you believe, but look for a new relationship/new level with Christ. Human nature wants to hold onto the past. Honor the past, but be ready for the future. That is something every generation needs to learn. It’s always better to be a history maker than a history server.
I hope I’m making sense. =/ And I hope I somewhat, sort of, maybe answered you a little bit clearer this time.
–ash
I love this conversation; thanks Tyler and everyone commenting. You are making a difference dude.
I had the chance to lead communion last Sunday and in preparing for it I was reading John and reading through what Jesus said along with communion (most often we hear I Corinthians about the Lord’s Supper). We hear that no one should partake in an “unworthy manner” and think about sin but reading through John and the context of I Corinthians I am adding being unloving and un-united to my definition of an “unworthy manner”. We didn’t do “One Prayer” at our church but I am praying that our church will truly love one another and be united as Jesus prayed we would for his glory. It really is a supernatural thing if it is to happen I think. We’re trying to create a healthy multi-ethnic church however multi-generational is not only needed but a tremendous challenge in it’s own right.
Loving each other and being united, being the church, cannot just be about corporate singing and corporate hearing of the Word. preacherman describes his church as a family, meeting each others needs. It takes time and I think so many of us are not making time and space to get to know and care for others.
Sorry- post hijack…Somebody with ‘nearly’ my name on the other side of the world. That’s awesome!!!!