Easily the most difficult part of my job is trying to bridge the gap between stage and congregation. Having a large sanctuary (holds 2,500 when it’s finished) makes this more difficult. Anytime you have that many seats it immediately makes you feel disengaged from what is happening on stage. So I struggle constantly with how to break down that barrier.
This past weekend was conscience effort to break the barrier. We went with keys, acoustic guitar, drums, and a vocalist. Luckily I (acoustic guitar) and Jill (keys) can sing. So we had 3 instruments and 3 vocalists. Very scaled back from a usual weekend. Beyond that, we took some time in the service for each of us to share. No longer were we just musicians who sing and play. We were real people with real struggles. I hope our goal was reached. The theme of the day was finding peace in conflict. Each of us shared from our lives.
My part begins at about 4:10.
(video embedded RSS readers)
I know many worship pastors and church attenders read this blog…
How does your church try to break down the barrier between stage and congregation?
(please don’t say authenticity…i’m tired of hearing that word in relation to this subject)
Creative Chaos @ the Soul. Watercooler Wednesdays @ Ethos.
thats a great thought from Habakkuk man.
i think worship leading (like worship itself) is holistic. leading from stage is only part of leading a community in worship. i’ve been trying to keep that at the forefront of my mind at my new church and on the road. relationships with the people we are leading should be as important as the set lists we spend time crafting. even in the case of large congregations, making ourselves available to hang out, talk, be involved in the community, etc is all part of downplaying the stage persona and allowing worship leading to be more holistic than just leading music.
Go OT! LOL. Are you planning on hooking up with sister and the Peacemaking Team she’s starting? I just talked with her yesterday. You should talk to her about it. It’s good stuff! I really appreciate the fact that you take time to upload these vids too.
Aaron-
Totally agree man. We have made a conscience effort in the past few weeks, and will continue to do so, to hang out after both services off of the stage instead of changing clothes or loading gear or tuning instruments. Obviously it isn’t going to change everything, but it is a start.
Jay-
My problem is that once late August arrives I’ll be swamped. 3 classes with this job is brain overload. I try and not book up anything else with my consistent time until I get a feel for the class load. I would definitely be a part of it otherwise.
That was really cool.
Nice job with the Habakkuk quote. I’ve used a passage from there in a blog post, but to bust it out in church? Way to dig up the obscure but awesome quote.
I think being real is a great start. I love when it when people are transparent and that’s something I try to model myself. I can understand the issue of barrier. Our church is only about 300 but it seems like we struggle with the barrier between congregation and stage. I think that this is something as worship leaders we don’t even try to address.
I have no answers but these are great thoughts.
our church is not nearly as big as yours, but I do try to share and be very real. I recently gave a testimony of what I had learned in the past two years - I was very, very honest and asked for prayers as I left on sabbatical. I also just really focus on relationships with people in our church - I am a minister,not just a worship leader. If I know them, am praying for them, living life with them, and realize what’s happening in their lives then when I am leading worship I can look at them, smile, and pray some more. I’ve had tons of people say “I know you were praying as we sang this morning.” That connects our hearts. It’s a one on one way though.
I’ve wanted to do a worship roundtable like Billy did (www.billychia.com) but haven’t done it yet. We’ve done things where we serve communion more one on one, and shared our testimonies, etc. too………
More than anything I think they have to know you love them…..
serial youth pastor- hilarious name, wow
jan- i think you are done on. relationship is the key and there are any number of ways. i love the challenge of drawing people in not just to music but to relationship so that the music takes a whole new level of meaning. sounds like you are making that happen.
Wow! Good job.
I work on developing interactive/experiential worship elements and I work at Starbucks. I didn’t event think about it until you asked the question here…I work to design worship experiences that connect people (to God). Therefore I focus on 5S (five senses) experiential (let them get involved) elements. What I design and how I work at Starbucks are interconnected.
Breaking through the barrier is sort of like working at Starbucks. When Howard Shultz started Starbucks, one of the things they couldn’t quite understand in the beginning is why people felt so connected when they went to Starbucks.
Think about it, even people who don’t drink coffee will usually find something they like (and there is plenty of other drinks there), so they can meet and hang out with their friends at Starbucks.
Here are a couple ways that we could apply Starbucks techniques to church:
Chatter: We chatter with each other a lot (calling drinks out is an intentional tool). The chattering creates an atmosphere of inclusiveness. Before and after worship…chatter (from stage), let people hear your chatter, call out to people (before and after worship). Reach out and meet a new friend each week. Invite people to join you on stage.
Get To Know Their Stories: At Starbucks we really work at getting to know people. Not only their drinks, but as we have time, really connecting with our customers. I could tell you story after story after story about the guests at my Starbucks. We strive to create legendary customer service “one cup at a time”.
For church try to create a connection “one Sunday at a time”. At church I try to meet at least one new person each week, and really take time to get to know them. Even if it is only 5 minutes. And I make it all about them, I only chime in when there is something we “connect” over, like living in New Mexico, love Brazilian food, love Starbucks…
Third Place: We work very hard at creating what we call “the third place” environment. The basic theory behind it is that people need to connect in three places in their lives. Decades ago, those three places were home, work and church. When people started leaving church in droves, they looked for a “third place” to connect. People try bars, clubs, the internet…
I have always been intentional about designing worship elements to “include” the people off stage. I have just never written it all down before. I’m going to have to think more about this, this is a really great train of thought to explore. I need to write a book called “Starbucks Evangelism”.
Books to read: Howard Schulz’s book, “Pour Your Heart Into It” and subsequently “The Great Good Place” and “Celebrating the Third Place (inspiring communities)” by Ray Oldenburg.
Sorry, it was so long, now I’ve got to go post this on my blog…
Great stuff Dorothy. I love how intentional everything is. When I was younger, leading for youth groups and such, I was never intentional I just did whatever for whatever reason. As I’ve gone on I see the importance of being intentional with everything we do on Sunday morning.
First of all @vicar of vibe - i am so jealous of your name. Please think of a cool name for me! I am also a female worship leader and designer of worship experiences….. but I have no cool name at all.
I had one band member that used to refer to me as Rev but no one else uses it…….
Tyler, all of these comments have been about relationship at the core - being real, talking etc. - and I’m thrilled to go try some of these. I will say to you that it takes time. People have to see you and know you and be with you. I’ve been at my church since it began and in Sept. we will celebrate 10 years so I’ve been at it with my team and with our congregation for a while. It might not happen overnight but it can happen as you invest your life in others. I had a pastor tell me - people listen more if they know you care. Lives impact lives. Music is a vehicle we use.
Right on Jan.
At the Willow Arts Conference this year, Ross Parsley gave great advice when he said that you have to be at your church for at least 4 years. You start establishing roots after 4 years was his thinking. Obviously it is different per the situation for each person, but I think that is a good rule of thumb.
Tyler,
We’re a small community (still in the formation and dreaming phase but actively ‘doing church’ alternatively) intentionally aiming at 3 values (in no particular order): 1) authenticity; 2) creativity; 3) intimacy. We’re deliberately applying these three values to the 3 primary elements to public worship (once again, no particular order): 1) worship; 2) teaching; 3)community.
I really like what Vicar of Vibe said. For me the 5 senses are really important as is the community. Our dominant idea is that of curator or facilitator. We’ve taken the emphasis off the “leaders” and placed it on the participants. This works well at the moment (we’re a small group) but I hope that we can build this into our very DNA as we grow.
What this means in practice is that we’ve chosen to put aside two things: 1) preaching and the preacher; 2) rock-based worship and the worship team. How one “does church” requires participation and makes little room for observer style attendence. This has allowed us to place the focus on learning and process rather than teaching and on creative exploration of worship as movement, meditation, drumming and taize (among others). This is the first experience of church for me where the idea of creativity is not cringeworthy!
The history of what we’ve done can be found on our community blog.
@janowen hit me with your blog and I’ll work on “noodling” a couple names for you…
http://designingforphilistines.blogspot.com/
Actually I have only been at my current church for less than a year. So, I had to be really intentional. But, I also knew that God had called me here.
I particularly look for those on the fringe and have the new “deer in the headlights” look.
BTW, that wisdom of intentionality has come from years of experience. I am a fluffy grandmother that for some reason (read: God)younger people like to hang out with.
I think primarily it has to do with I love people exactly where they are at.
What you may not see from on stage is that lots of people want to connect with you. Music IS a powerful vehicle. You are kind of like “rock stars” or the “coolest kid in high school”. Use that vehicle that God has given you.
It may also be important to note that I am an extreme introvert.
Tim-
Sounds like you guys are really trying something totally new. That is awesome.
Here is one my one question for you, and it is just because I have a knee jerk reaction to the word authenticity. What does it actually mean to be authentic at church instead of not authentic? I think authenticity is a great vocab word, but is pretty vague to me. I’ll let you expand on on what it means for you guys.
Hey man,
Very cool … great idea. Actually, the 2nd set tomorrow (Sunday), I’m stripping away the entire band and doing an intimate set of just myself on acoustic piano. Some prayer, meditation, and musical interludes, and for now … I’ve got two corporate songs planned during that moment, “All Who Are Thirsty” and “Here I Am To Worship” … old songs our people can really sing easily.
Fred
Tim - what is your blog link? Would really like to read more…
Tyler - Whereas “authenticity” used to actually mean something, is has become overused and has become a “trick” word…
It has become the new “we are a loving church”.
People (churches) think they are able to simply add “authentic” to their tagline and it will draw people. But, if you are still doing things according to old paradigms, then it’s just a word.
This is the best conversation going on right now in the blogsphere, IMHO.
Honestly, I’m not trying to blog here…It’s just this thread is turning into blogs for me…
I recently left my denominational church of over 40 years. My biggest frustration was listening to them say we want to grow and reach others for Christ, BUT as long as they want to become just like us, since we are the ones who really know how to do church properly. Then they couldn’t understand why none of (and the demographics from their community are unbelievably young, upwardly mobile) those nice young people wouldn’t come to a church where they were singled out as “newcomers” (please stand up while we all stare at you)
In worship design (greatly simplifying here) IMHO, you truly add “being real” to your DNA, or you simply add worship tricks…
Adding worship tricks is surfing, seeing and simply adding… “this is the newest hottest trick, we will do it…”
Or doing designing from memory… “I remember back in my old church (read: 1982 paradigm worship design) we did James Taylor’s “Shower the People”, it was so “rad”, we should do that cause I loved it.”
DNA… Saying “this is an interesting idea, how can we extrapolate that to fit what God is calling us to do in our lives”.
For me it works out to designing 5S worship experiences that.:
1) Glorifies God
2) Everything I plan is tested again the following…entice the skeptics, challenge the lukewarm and thrill the believers…
3) Then it must fit in with who we (at XC) are…”imperfect church, be real, be safe, be changed…”
As long as we are truly “authentic” then it is simply vocab in our DNA.
When it becomes simply a tag or trick - it doesn’t change people…
I know that it’s difficult when your sanctuary seats 2500, but I’ve found that building relationships with our congregation off the stage lessens the burden of “leading” worship on the stage.
At the same time, it sounds like your doing great. Keep opening up to your church. The more that you become a person (rather than performer) the worship universe expands.
word.
totally agree chris. but that is also easier said than done. definitely a huge goal of ours though.