Crossing the Line
Using media during a church gathering is something I find to be very helpful in connecting a Biblical point to daily life. Whether this is through the internet in some way, showing a movie clip, or referencing a popular tv show…there is a lot of value in relating today’s culture to the sacred.
I often see churches use clips from rated PG-13 or even rated R movies. Or using clips from what many would consider to be inappropriate tv shows.
So I’m curious…
Is showing an appropriate clip from a rated R movie or tv show with plenty of innuendo a bad thing?
Does it somehow endorse that everything that happens in those movies or tv shows as ok to watch?
Does it cheapen Christianity and evangelism by connecting it with something with far less value and depth?
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Tyler Braun.
Good question. We have attenders at both end of the spectrum. I’ve got some little old members who would be REALLY upset if I showed something with ANY innuendo at all. Others would simply take it in stride.
I think it depends on the clip itself. Sometimes a clip can be free from the garbage and poor choices in a movie but the very fact it comes from THAT movie taints it. Try to imagine a clip you’d use from Dogma for example.
I don’t use clips as much as descriptions or actual dialog [its a technology issue] and I’ve been known to give a disclaimer that the show, movie, or whatever would not be enjoyed by many of the listeners but the message in what I am going to read, show etc. has import for our live and the Gospel we proclaim.
Sometimes the clips are best used as an example of the struggle the world has with the Gospel of Christ and/or an example of how the world tries to answer their need in less than ideal ways.
Peace
Alan
Portlan
I think that is a great question. In my prior church we did a series that used movies as the main preaching part. like 10 minute clips with points and the message between them. I remember being in the meetings to discuss the movie selection and it being explained to me that we cant do a R rated movie because we simply cant endorse what it is showing…content and otherwise. even if we just showed the “ok” clips people would leave church and possibly go rent the movie because they think it is ok.
so i think that there is a very thin line…and honestly, it probably comes down to whether you think your church culture can handle it…cause each church is different…some could handle it and take it in stride and others would have a hissy fit.
great great question!
Yeah thin line for sure. I think understanding the audience is pretty key.
I think it *is* important to use appropriate clips (unless you know your audience won’t mind, or you have a really, really important point to make). But I don’t think it’s anybody’s business to tell other people what is or isn’t OK to watch.
A couple of times I have taught a class showing clips of movies about Jesus versus what the Bible says. (It’s not an original idea, I got it from Philip Yancey, “The Jesus I Never Knew”). There have been so many movies about the life of Christ ranging from the silent era through today. Some of them are a bit irreverent, but they show compelling, interesting and thought-provoking ideas about Jesus. It hasn’t been without a little controversy sometimes, particularly when I showed a clip from “The Last Temptation of Christ” or “Jesus of Montreal”. I don’t agree with these particular movies in their conclusions about Jesus, but they take such an off-beat look at some of the stories that we just take for granted that they served well to open our eyes to the real Jesus behind the Gospels.
According to John Eldridge and Don Miller, any compelling movie is simply the Author of Life telling us his story in other terms. So if it can give us a greater insight into the Storyteller, it seems worth it.
Today’s adults are so oriented towards absorbing information through the media of television and film and so poorly oriented to listening to a speaker for 30 minutes that we need to consider it. However, if a weaker brother would be led to sin because they see a clip in church and acquire the entire movie and then assume all of the choices made in the movie are correct because “they showed this movie in church” then it’s a problem.
Good point about any compelling story is the author of life tell the story in other ways. Hard to argue with that.
Well if we think following Paul’s example is a good one than I would say so. In Athens Paul (Acts 17) didn’t hesitate one bit to use “secular” stuff to speak God’s truth to a group of people who would be far more likely to understand that to any Old Testament Scripture. Seems to me Paul thought like Augustine believing that “all truth was Gods truth” anyways. That truth existed regardless of whose mouths it came from or what vessel brought the truth; such as an ipod, tv, computer or blog
Now I say all that while at the same time assuming that the creative team and pastor at a church would use wisdom when choosing a specific movie and clip to help illustrate a point. Personally I remember a number of talks or better said “point within a talk” due to some connection made with a song or movie clip. In the student ministry world I honestly dont know how we could effectively reach this media saturated generation without finding ways to incorporate it into our programming.
Didn’t Jesus “cross a line” in becoming human? The divine became secular.
…I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.
1 Corinthians 9:22TNIV
The Bible is an R rated book and we endorse it. At least most churches. I don’t know about those presbyterians.
That is a really good point. There isn’t much that we see on tv that isn’t on tv in some way. But there is one difference. I’m not sure whether it is a big difference or just a small one, but a difference nonetheless.
That difference is that the goal of the Bible is to share God’s story. So each story is a part of the bigger story which in rooted in the Trinity. What we see on tv and in movies doesn’t have that same connection. Should that stop us though?
The book of judges as a stand alone book doesn’t have much to do with God or Jesus. In the context of the whole story it has a lot to say about what God was and is doing in the world. I think it’s the same for all stories, even ones on tv and in movies. In the big picture there’s a connection to the trinity; it isn’t always a direct glorifying one. Indirectly, however, there always seems to be something. Like the way an atheist (Ian McEwan) can write a novel (Atonement) about a story of redemption.
rossgale, great point: the crucifixion of jesus is an r-rated story…along w/ so many others.
look: if a movie has a scene of theme that the pastor finds will help drive home a point, no matter what the rating, go for it. people who are appalled by this should not be so offended. like kurt, i would hope that the pastoral/team would use wisdom in how and why they’re showing a particular clip. visuals are a great way to communicate to people.
i don’t think it cheapens anything. personally, i think we all forget that jesus laughed, had a good time and told stories painting pictures of his day to drive home the moral of his story.
Well….”The Passion of the Christ” was rated “R” — there are some teens (16+) today who have not yet seen it because their parents say it’s too violent — yet think nothing of renting another violent “R”-rated film and showing it on the main t.v. at home. Talk about irony! This is a good discussion to have with teens, actually. Moral-decision making 101.
I think the “Matrix” was the most viewed during the 1990’s as far as ‘teachable moments’ are concerned. Then the two sequels messed that up.
It’s hard to find a film made in the last 20 years than is not objectionable in some way…language mostly. But I find all the advertisements on viagra or ‘constant need to urinate’ just as offensive — and they come on t.v. without any warning!
We showed some “prayer” clips to our teens from popular movies to show that this I what the world thinks of when they “tall to God” (e.g, clip from Meet the Parents as well as a ‘clean’ portion of dinnertime prayer in Tallidega Nights). I didn’t pretend as if those teens aren’t watching these movies or worse.
Why? Because there s an actual concrete disconnect between church/Christian life and real daily life for most teens I know (esp. since they have not yet developed abstract reasoning skills. Of course, they or their parents may conclude we were endorsing the movie). In being somewhat missional (instead of extractional), I error in going towards the students in their culture and world experience than expecting them to automatically come our way. Again, most of the teens I know are already watching many of these films.
In this case we distinctly contrasted Religion vs. The Gospel, which sadly seems to be outside the actual experience of many (most?) church folk.
I remember when I was in 8th grade and one of our sunday school teachers showed a clip from goodwill hunting. He wanted to be able to share the clip with us for the meaning, but the meaning got lost inside of the multiple F words and other four letter words.
It is hard for me when someone says, “this movie was awesome” then I go and watch it and it is riddled with a lot of sex and language. That is a tough line to walk, partially because everyone has different standards and views.
When I was teaching Jr High Guys I wanted to show a couple of shows from MTV. I didn’t think there was anything wrong with it, apparently I was mistaking and parents let me know about it. My attitude was that they were already watching it, why not watch it together and then discuss. Parents didn’t see it that way.
Just something to think about.
This is an excellent point.
In fact, we have noticed a desensitization of things such as language and behavior, just as we are desensitized to action and violence. Watching an episode of “24″ today is more exciting than the best action movie of the 70s or 80s. Hollywood knows this effect, and has been amping up the tempo to get a bigger impact from its product for many years.
We notice this when we compare today’s media with yesterday’s media, or we see a clip in isolation. I have heard stories of people outside the church who take a clip from a movie to use in a discussion group or class, and being quite embarrassed by the content when seen outside the context of the rest of the movie. This is because the whole movie experience desensitizes us.
I know what Kyle means, because that’s how I felt watching Dogma. When I use a clip and I am aware there are people who will have an issue with it I prepare them.
In using part of Bruce Almighty, I told the congregation, “you’re going to see a very pointed part of this movie. There are some parts that many of you will consider over the top or inappropriate so if you rent it be warned. You will probably enjoy it when it’s been edited for broadcast TV.”
Peace
Alan
Once more Tyler great issue to bring up.
I thought Bruce Almighty was a good movie. I personally thought it was interesting to see the ‘Hollywood/non-Christian’ perspective of God’s sovereignty in granting (or not) somebody’s prayer and wishes and the domino effect of it.
The film itself actually opened a couple conversation between me and my non-christian friends about church. I vaguely remember even that a couple of my non-Christian friends asked me about that movie (thinking that me, as a Christian, would’ve been offended by it) I think it shows once again how non-Christians sometimes view us as straight-laced bunch of people. Imagine how surprise they would be had I told them we used the clip as part of the sermon…that would’ve shown them how normal Christians are (some of us at least)
If this clip was added to last week’s sermon I thought it would’ve caught people’s attention and especially when many wonder why certain prayers are unanswered. This is not to say that in the absence of the clip that the sermon was uninteresting either or would’ve made the sermon better.
Thanks Ty for not responding to my good thoughts…see if I post a comment ever again…sheesh…when was the last time you commented on my blog….
If a clip is used from an inappropriate movie, it makes me wonder why the pastor or church leaders watched the movie in the first place?