Who Stole My Church? .2

2008 April 30

by Tyler

The first meeting is almost a disaster with Gordon and the group. It begins with everyone just blurting out all their struggles with the church (a reminder here is that the group consists of mostly older people who are mostly against all the changes occurring in the church).

Here is a short list of the issues that this group names in the first meeting:

Pastors should wear a suit and a tie. You honor God by dressing nice.
Losing the prayer service on Wednesday night was the biggest blunder so far.
Sunday school classes are important for spiritual growth.
Young people don’t know the Bible.
There must be a choir and hymns.
Young people do not tithe well.
The music is too loud.

I’m sure some of you can relate with any number of these things. Others of you don’t see any of these things as issues. Wherever you stand, these issues are real and real people struggle with them every time they go to church.

I think far too often my generation wants to go off and start their own church geared towards young people instead of trying to bridge a gap with this older generation. Instead of discussing these issues they take the easy road and join together with those who think like them. I’ve heard many people say that finding a good youth pastor is harder now because most youth pastors can just go off and start their own “emerging” church.

I read a blog a while back that said church cannot be all things to all people. I understand the point, it does make some sense. But really, that person was just advocating for churches being split up by tastes, style, and age, and the problem is that we lose the community aspect of it. Now some will say that community is a group of people. I say community is not a bunch of people who are all alike spending time together. We must learn to work together. Family isn’t one age group and it isn’t one style. Family takes a lot of work.

Before going on…I wonder: How would you reach out to the older generation here? They’ve stated their issues and struggles. Do you give up or do you try to bridge the gap? What do you say?

Tomorrow I’ll share a little about how Gordon tries to defuse the situation.

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Filed under: the rest... Tags: books, church

rossgale

I say we make church consist of only 18-35 year olds. Then you wouldn’t have any of these problems.
http://manofdepravity.com Tyler

ha, o ross. to everyone reading this…ross goes to church with mostly people over 40, he is joking. but there is some truth to that, but also the same thing i was arguing against.
Yonas

LOL I’m still in that 18-35 age group! HA take THAT!!
Yonas

OK on a more serious note:

People mostly can have the best intention in trying to cater the church to everybody, although I see that many churches also have their own plan to focus on certain age groups. Sometimes depending on how the church ‘market’ themselves, they’ll also attract people from certain financial level…that’s why you have big church, small church, ‘rich’ church (where you see all the nice cars), ‘down-to-earth’ church, ‘poor’ church, ‘hip and cool’ church (where all the young people go), traditional church where all the old people go. I’m not saying this is right…It is what it is. Harsh, but I learned throughout my experience going to various churches.

People are still people. Christians are still people. Idealy, a church supposed to be a place of love, compassion and fellowship beyond the Sunday building, but the reality is that church is more about people coming in every Sunday and leave all their church persona there.

We are not immune to our own fear, values, wants, needs, and although we preach that church is a place for ALL people, we tend to gravitate towards people that are similar to us in some ways, shape or form. Sad,
I used to share this idealistic view that everybody in the body of Christ should get along, build solid relationships, etc but the reality is all have fallen into sin and we are imperfect people and there is little can be done about that. People have been in constant discussion about how church should be, how we should be loving others as Christians, bridging gaps between people, becoming testimony to reach out to non-Christians…all good but it takes more than just discussions to do all that. It takes pure courage and lots of effort to go out of our comfort zone to do that and many people have either fear, or not wanting to do that.

Bridging the gap: I’ve tried many times before (either inter-denominationally, or just among people in general). Reaching out takes TREMENDOUS amount of energy but at the same time it takes both sides to make ‘bridging’ works. After a while you have to step back and realize why the other side is not responding and redirect your energy to a different group who would reciprocate to you.
http://manofdepravity.com Tyler

Yonas…thanks for the comment.

You bring up some great points. Some would say you are being a pessimist, but that is an honest look at some realities.

I guess my worry is that we aren’t talking about non Christians agreeing with Christians, we are talking about getting Christians to bridge the gap between themselves. It scares the crap out of me that this has become so difficult.

I honestly do not think it is too much to think that young and old can reach out to each other.

I agree that similar people gravitate towards each other, but through various ministries I think a church can reach people from all walks of life. It just takes solid leadership and welcoming attenders.
Yonas

Yes, I was going to add ‘not being pessimistic, but the truth had to be told’….

I was also thinking what you just posted. We are so focused on ‘reaching out to the world’ and going to Africa, going to the community, going to the neighbors, while sometimes the opportunity to build a strong relationship is right there next to you.

I don’t know I think I’ve changed my diet too much lately, I feel like I’ve been on a soapbox more often than I’d like.
http://www.practitionersym.wordpress.com drew

i whole heartedly agree that far too many in our generation take the easy way out. instead of having a dialogue about why the older generation wants things a certain way, we just dismiss them as being ‘traditional’ or ‘old fashioned’.

as for giving up or bridging the gap, i say build the bridge. it’s not easy, and it certainly isn’t quick. but there’s great value in going through that process with others in the church. i’ve been a youth pastor at a less than progressive church for over 5 years now. and not every situation translates exactly, that’s what i’ve been doing…building the bridge. i realized quickly that it wasn’t going to be a fast process. i also realized that there was a mindset change that needed to be made both on my side and their’s. is that bridge completely built? nope. are we getting there? definitely. my strategy has been to embrace humility (knowing i don’t know everything or even what’s best all the time), talk through with my elders why they hold the positions they do, and then try to find that middle ground. finding the middle ground where everyone can stand is key. it may not be everything i want, and it may not be everything they want. but at least we’re standing there together and we’ve moved forward. when the mindset of the group/team becomes what’s good for ‘us’ and not ‘me’ then you’re much more likely to succeed.
http://manofdepravity.com Tyler

good stuff drew. thanks for the comment.
Alan Wilkerson

A couple of things, off the top of my head. First, we’re totally depraved, we’re sinners and sinners, at their very heart are selfish people. We want what WE want and that ends it. This side of Christ’s return or our going to him that’s not changing. Part of the discussion comes from the Sin in all our lives that keeps us from seeing another’s side.

Second is the issue of personal taste. I am glad not everyone likes Strawberry ice cream because that leaves more for me. But saying that if you don’t like strawberry ice cream you don’t have a clue is welll… see the first comment.

I have very good friends involved in house churches. They are about as homogeneous as any Presbyterian church or Church of God in Christ was in the 1960′s. They are as “stuck” in their ways as a 100 year old Methodist congregation and, the one’s I am aware of, are a white bread as they come. Is that bad? Nope, it just is.

If there is a key, looking back on some 30 years of ordained ministry, it is humility. It is thinking of others as more important than you are. I think that may be biblical.

If you’ve read this far let me make one more comment that I dismissed when Dr. Shaper tried to get through our heads in Seminary. People need anchors. I a world of off-the-chart changes people need those things that tie them to what they know and have loved. That is why creeds, unison prayers, traditionally worded hymns and the like are important. I learned that lesson through experience and I’d wish I’d learned it a decade earlier. I wouldn’t have been such a horses rear-end.

Peace,

Alan Wilkerson
http://jimdrake.blogspot.com Jim Drake

Tyler

Just now getting around to reading this book… and I’ll have my thoughts in a few days. May I tag your post here as a reference in mine?

You doing ok? I’m not on Twitter much these days–or reading the amount of blogs I did. But I still think about you and your ministry. Hope you are well

Jim