i think an issue like divorce, you need to be very careful of….while it is not God’s plan for a couple to get divorced, I believe that he has more grace than we will ever give him credit for. And I do NOT think under any circumstances God intends for any man or woman to be in abusive relationships. Jesus direct words talked about unfaithfulness. But is unfaithfulness ONLY sleeping w/ another person? I think it’s a legit question for such a sensitive issue. yes, i understand that there is more divorce in the church than outside of it and it is often due to people’s ignorance and unwillingness to work at the relationship. it is sad. such people need to not abide by culture’s standards, but by God’s. nevertheless-i hear too many christians make blanket statements about an issue…any issue w/o really investigating God’s intention or interest. it becomes more about that person’s strong opinion…and they attach, “thus sayeth the Lord,” when the Lord did not sayeth at all….it’s middle ground, not necessarily as black and white as might be perceived. (that goes along w/ your 3rd point there)

Fair statement.

My basic point was that people today use reasons for divorce that are as wide as the day is long. Christians divorce all the time with the reason being that they are happier with someone else and the Bible says God wants them to be happy.

It is my understanding that the Bible either condemns divorce in all circumstances or it leaves a few very small circumstances in which it is allowed. Most people who decide to get divorced are letting their social lives dictate their decision rather than the Bible.

Tyler – I agree completely. It is NEVER God’s desire that anyone to divorce. Divorce is painful and destructive. Let us keep in mind that God is all about reconciliation. I beleive we as Christ followers we always need to take great measures to engage in reconciliation with everyone, yes even a spouse who has committed adultery. Christ said to forgive as the Father fogives. The only time the Father will not forgive is when an individual is unrepentant or unremorseful over their sins. In my opinion (and interpretation) it is then and only then a spouse is justified in asking for a divorce – the same can be applied in the case where you or your children are being abused or life is threatened.

Great posts Tyler

Preston you took the words right out of my mouth. I could write forever about the Bible and how people love to interpret what it says to fit their lives or just flat out not follow it at all. In my opinion the Bible is very black and white in many areas. We as Christians get ourselves in a real mess when we start to gravitate over to the grey area. I choose to take the Bible at face value. What it says is the absolute truth, we are to have child like faith right, well I think too many people try to dissect the Bible, interpret it to fit their lives or situations but if they only stopped thinking so much and just took the Bible for what is says and really understand in our hearts that it is the absolute truth then we would all be much happier and lead way better lives than we could ever do on our own. We get so caught up in “ya that might work for you or for them, but my situation is different and people just don’t understand”. That is an absolute lie. The bible was written for everyone, not just for certain circumstances or situations that fit into a certain box or criteria. The fact of the matter is that we all need to follow the Bible in ever part of our lives, just not the areas we want to or that make us feel good or that fit our own agenda. The fact is that sin is sin and if you try to rationalize it or tell yourself that it is ok, than you are absolutely missing the whole point of the Bible and how it says to live our lives.

Preston you are absolutely right about reconciliation. The bible directs us to forgive not once or twice but always, but our God is a just God and he will always forgive us, but we have to repent and genuinely repent. Jesus forgave the woman who was caught in the very act of adultery, but he also said you are forgiven, but go and sin no more. We can’t play games with God, he knows our hearts. We cannot live purposely sinful lives and just expect God to forgive us because he is a gracious and loving God, but still go on sinning and never really repent or ask for true forgiveness (which means stopping the sinful act we are doing). My mom use to always tell me that when you say sorry what you are saying is that I’m sorry for what I did and I will try not to do it again, not oh I’m sorry and then keep doing the same act. Reconciliation is a great thing and if we truly believe in what the Bible says and truly ask God to take control of our lives and situations, than nothing is impossible. Jesus said “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

@ Sean, Here’s the thing. We are human, we are fallible. Which means, what? We can interpret the Bible incorrectly….and in order to discover God’s intention, often we have to wrestle with what we read. That doesn’t mean we choose to make it work for our social lifestyles, but rather, I think God expects us to doubt, to question and to discover. Yes, Tyler, I’m speaking from a Rob Bell perspective, but it’s one I agree with. Each generation has to decide what the Word of God is saying to them. And I believe that Christians create this black and white line that ultimately turns people away from God rather than draw people to Him…God understands our world and while He calls us to live unto himself, he is not unmerciful or ungracious. He is a practical God who takes unwanted or bad circumstances, like divorce (since we’re on the soapbox), and uses them toward Good if that person or those people are willing. That, from the book of Romans

Interesting blog discussion. Sean, well spoken/written…

I have huge concerns for #2, especially when it comes to divorce. I’ve never said this on any blogs before and I’m going to say this here:

I’m a single guy who is truthfully getting ‘afraid’ of getting married in the US..and I’ve asked this question to a few people before about divorce.

We already know the stereotypical world (US) view of divorce: If you’re out of love, end it. If you don’t feel the sparks, end it. If you have grown apart (my favorite), end it. If you have ‘irreconcilable differences’ end it.

I’ve also witnessed a lot of (Christian) men and women who don’t really value or respect each other in marriage….people who yell at each other…women rudely tell their husbands to ‘shut up’ in front of their kids, correcting and belittling each other in front of people, wives who just watch TV while the husbands wash the dishes, husbands who just watch sports while the wives cook in the kitchen, wives who constantly control, put down their husbands and tell them what to do, etc. Outside from my parents strong marriage, I don’t see much encouraging stories out there..and I’m talking about Christian marriages.

I’ve been to a friend’s wedding where the pastor spent over few minutes of how he needs to love his wife unconditionally, catch her when she falls, protect her, treat her with kindness, be there for her, love her unconditionally, understand her, in sickness and in health, and all kinds of expectations….and when he turned into the bride, he spent 20 seconds JOKING about the ‘obeying’ part as if it was an awkward and outdated word to use. Now, before some of y’all just start jumping on my throat, let me just say there are men who are abusing that word and take advantage of the women. I’m not talking about those kinds of men. I’m talking about marriage as a whole…why is it ok to put a lot of expectations on men in marriage, but when we want to at least balance the scale a little bit..suddenly it becomes politically incorrect?

Now, I can’t say much about abuse (since I don’t come from that environment)..but my point is more that IF I picked somebody who shares the same faith with me, how much of that faith (in my case Christian of course) would divorce-proof my marriage? I’ve been very discouraged to learn that the statistics show virtually no difference in divorce rate (maybe some 30% instead of 50% if I’m not mistaken).

Now now ladies, don’t start asking me out on dates now! (I’m sure I’ll be very popular after this!)

*Bueller?…Bueller?*

yonas-
women fear abandonment and abuse b/c that’s what WE see, that’s what WE experience. i’m not saying women are perfect and certainly we need to learn just as much as men. but we need men who support our dreams and ambitions and callings, a balance b/t chasing us/protecting us and giving us room to be our own. or course, there are plenty of women who are abusive as well and this should not be. you see the command in the bible where it says women “obey” and men “love”…to me is the exact same commandment (equal), but it’s put into different terms based off what each gender understands. love is serving and love is obedient…and vice versa. marriage is scary, i know this. and divorce is wretched. BUT- i think there is a balance. there must be one if the human race is to have choice and will in the matter which we do. and God as great as he is, knows how to use it for the best…as i said before. i think marriage is a RISK. you see, i don’t know that anything but God himself is “full proof”- that means even relationships are not full proof. you have to work at them, and you pray and hope and work to succeed, but failure and sin are at work in the world. so rather than trusting the marriage, per say, trust God…and put forth your life and effort into that woman. putting wrongful expectations on a woman or a man only hurts the marriage, not helps it. ask that she do that for you and trust that she’ll try, just as you will. submit it to God. it’s the most the human mind and heart can do i believe.

Thanks Ash