I don’t think there is ever a situation where a pastor should be paid a disgustingly large sum of money. First, I don’t think it should be offered to him.. but second, I don’t think they should ever take it.

Definitely agree with you on churches wanting to live comfortably. At our church we’re doing a study of money and we’re also discussing it in small groups. It occurred to me that we all want to live like Jesus; but he was homeless, he travelled around from place to place, relying on the hospitality and provision of others to physically sustain him. It does imply that some of us need to be secure enough to host and support others, though I doubt any of these people were millionaires.

Last week at one of my Bible studies we were talking about miracles, and it was asked if we allow room in our lives for miracles. This would mean we were in need of a miracle. A lot of people want God’s provision, but refuse to not be able to provide for themselves. In the discussion about money, someone brought up that if you have paid for your rent and then it was between buying food for your family and tithing, how could anyone look down on you for buying food? Maybe this is hard for me to address, as I have never had to be in that situation.. but the miracle of God doesn’t work in giving us extra money so we can tithe, the miracles of God come when we have tithed and then he gives us something to live off of. But we then agreed that money is a ridiculously personal thing and it scared me to bring up.

Looking at the culture around us, I do think there need to be some people who are radical in the exact same way as Jesus; people who travel around, relying on the hospitality of believers, sharing the good news with people. But I also think living radically can mean being the only Christian in the office of your well-paying job, or being the nicest one in your neighborhood. It could mean that you read your Bible at school, you spend time with the homeless.. things that make each of us individually uncomfortable.

I was going to write more but then I decided I have rambled enough

There was a pretty huge debate about the pastor’s pay and what’s “too much” in another blog a while ago.

A pastor’s compensation in my opinion, at the very least should compensate basic necessity..a decent car (not a Bentley), a decent house (not an Italian villa), and other necessities (food, health insurance, kids education, etc). Many pastors dedicate their energy (mental/spiritual/physical) to lead the congregation and it’s up to the congregation to ensure that the financial support comes consistently so the pastor can focus more on leading, ministering and leading rather than worrying about what to eat, how to pay rent, etc.

This may be culturally different, but I know from my other church (overseas), that pastors often receive gifts of appreciation from the congregation…I’m not talking much, just even simple things like dinner invites, a couple nights of rest for the pastor’s family in somebody’s bungalow, etc…or even a donation from the congregation (controlled by the church) to buy the pastor a decent Minivan, etc. Little things that would encourage and rejuvenate one’s mind and spirit.

Of course the term ‘decent’is very subjective, but I know when pastors can afford a private jet, a couple Bentleys and a multi million dollar yacht, maybe the pay is a bit high.

Interesting topic Tyler. I was reflecting on the organic church folks talking about how the early church had no paid leaders yesterday and ended up reading through 1 Corinthians 9, pondering how that was connected.

I certainly think there is a New Testament precedent set towards providing for pastors to be able to live so that they can engage in ministry, build community etc. And yet at the same time, I think that bi-vocational is a great way to be engaged in ministry.

As someone called to pastoral ministry, it’s hard to imagine me being okay with being paid a ridiculous sum to be a pastor, but I certainly feel the congregation owes it to their leadership to provide them with enough sustenance to be able to focus on doing ministry. As Paul says(and Moses before him) in 1 Corinthians 9, don’t muzzle the ox whiles it’s treading out the grain.

From what you all have said so far…I totally agree a church should support their leaders. I believe it is 100% Biblical and an important way of honoring those leaders. The hard part is where do we draw the line. I’m not sure I have a great answer for that…

This topic is heavily debated. If you let the market suggest your pay, I have always been 30%-50% below market value of similar positions that only do about 20% of what I do. Aggravating? For sure. Usually the decision about pay is in the hands of the pastor (they agree to work for a sum) and someone else (boards, elders, etc). It has taken me many many years even more than a decade to realize that I am not a “worldly” person because I want better pay and even less responsibility. The “martyrdom” complex of pastors is, well, complex. I don’t need a paid job to perform my calling…it happens everywhere I go. I don’t clock in or clock out. What matters is that I am called to be a pastor…and so I pastor people. I am thankful that a congregation wants to pay me (Galatians 6:6) so that I can give them much more attention than if I was bi-vocational. It’s awesome! It’s even more awesome that I have the freedom to discuss the subject and hopefully see incremental improvement in providing for my family.

Dude,

Great questions being addressed here. I totally agree about picking up our cross and following Jesus. There is no glory in this and it is definitely not a comfortable job. I am coming to grips with this concept personally and I truly believe that God is calling me to a much more sacrificial lifestyle. I need to lay down my pride, my money, my time and anything else that holds me back from serving Him fully.

The question we need to ask ourselves daily is this: Do I have a burning desire to connect lost souls to a loving saviour? If you can’t answer yes to this question I don’t think you are following Jesus with your whole heart.

actually tyler, i whole heartedly connect w/ this. jesus not only did something radical for our time, but for his too. the pharisees were the “religious leaders, pastors, what have you,” and they also found themselves in rather comfy settings.

this is not to say that IF the church has the ability to support the pastor they shouldn’t, ultimately i’m fine w/ that.

but i DO wonder, what if a pastor lived homeless for a month…a couple of his buddies, no access to anything but a message and heart for the Father…that would be seriously radical and amazing. living homeless is not easy, not knowing what’s next your “plate” can even be disheartening. but what if it changed the world.

one of my favorite books is called “under the overpass” about two christian college guys who spend 6 mo. on the streets by choice….and what they thought they could offer, they actually learned….

I expected something different from the title… like leather pews or the like…but then I’m odd.

Here’s a couple of things I’ve noticed as I’ve gracefully aged. 1. Someone who makes more than us doesn’t deserve it. 2. We never make as much as we deserve. I chalk both of these up to three little letters, SIN.

God’s people are each called to serve or minister. They are to minister/serve within their area of gifts. Some of these gifts, in our culture, have become a vocation as well as calling. They require dedicated time, availability, expertise, education and the rest and thus have “evolved” into a paid job as well as a calling.

Pastoral salary, compensation is a matter of job expectation, responsibility within a particular congregation, culture and where one lives. IMHO I think 600K is a bit much even with the housing cost in New York is expensive [having said that see #1 above].

I did have a first-hand experience with this as I visited with a church in Long Beach CA. The money they offered wouldn’t have allowed me to live anywhere near Long Beach. They weren’t rich. They thought it was a fair salary. They just had NO idea what it cost to rent, let alone purchase, a house in their city.

BTW Great posts and topics Tyler

Alan
Portand

I know I’m late to the discussion after being out of town, but I wanted to share. First of all, I’m a worship pastor who makes about 40% less than average worship pastor at churches our size in our area – and most of those have some admin or technical help that I do not. If my husband passed away it would be hard for me to support my three children, work about 60-70 hours each week and remain living in the area I serve on the amount I make. I would have to take drastic measures that would greatly limit my ability and availability.

Here is my conclusion – if a pastor serves a church they should be graciously compensated. Yes, perhaps an exorbitant amount is rather obscene, but – in my opinion – so is starving the pastor and his or her family. (of course I’ve never known of a church that paid like that – it’s completely unusual) To be honest I’ve seen that happen MUCH MORE, particularly in smaller churches. If I had to suggest a “rule of thumb” for pastors serving in “normal” church situations I’d say that they should be paid AT LEAST what the average person in their congregation makes. I actually believe it is wrong – according to NT teachings – to have a congregation that makes great salaries but doesn’t provide for the pastors as they should. If the average income is $80,000 and a pastor serves in that congregation then I don’t think it’s wrong to pay him that amount. To provide an adequate – or generous – income for a pastor is to bless them as they care for the church. Which is a horribly difficult job, btw. I know you know that as do many of your readers. I’ve also seen that pastors generally give a large amount back to the church monetarily as well. I can’t tell you how many times we’ve been in a crunch and staff have voluntarily taken cuts (on small salaries!), or financed needed ministry items. I’ve paid for many items those in the secular marketplace would have provided for. Such as a computer and most of my conferences and training. Vocational ministry for 15 years – never have I had any computer bought for me, it’s all been out of my own pocket. Just an example some might not think of.

I’d say that my experience has been (in normal, average churches) that the realities of ministry will teach you the hard lessons soon enough. I don’t need to go without money to get that! And if I choose to give back or do without, it’s much more spiritually meaningful and honoring to God if I choose that on my own – not because someone expects it or because it’s forced upon me. Let a decision for simplicity and generosity flow out of my obedience to God.

Maybe I’m just not around really well paid pastors but all the ones I’ve served with have made too little for too long and are struggling with discouragement so much.

So yes, I think the salary is probably too much, although I have no idea what it would take to live in his area. But I also caution that the church should bless more and judge less and allow God to work in their pastor’s life. If it’s good for a pastor to do it – go without, etc – then it’s good for any of us to do so.

I hope that makes sense.

Great comment Jan. Good perspective to go with this post.