Should Non-Christians Be Involved on Worship Teams?

“Should a professing Christian who is living in sin be on the stage? If you say no, then don’t go to any church in America because that stage will be full of sinful people.”

There’s a difference between sinful people and people living in open sin. I think Paul’s pretty clear on the latter people being subject to church discipline (which most churches don’t do). Of course, church discipline doesn’t apply to people not “in” the church, because it’s assumed we’re talking about professing Christians.

The idea that allowing a non-Christian to participate on the worship team might save him/her sounds strikingly familiar to a justification for dating-evangelism.

I agree that a knee-jerk, black and white approach is probably not the right way to go here, but I’m not sure how I could justify the “yes” position in any way.

One “no” argument I’d make is that everyone who participates in a public way in a church service is then a representative of that church out in the world. Are you okay with having a non-Christian’s lifestyle become representative of your church?

(Obviously, a Christian can easily give any church a bad name, too.)

When I started reading this post, I was in the “how can you lead worship if you aren’t worshiping” camp. But you bring up some very good points, and in the end, I have to echo this:

“My main concern here is that we too often treat this issue as black and white and I don’t think we can because there is no direct Biblical mandate.”

I am part of a group that leads worship once a month, so I’m rather wrapped up in this “how should worship be led” question. One of the first examples that came to mind was of one of our drummers, who has an amazing story of sin and drugs then redemption and new life. He’s also amazingly talented and played with many jazz greats in the 70s. When he plays at church (usually 3 out of 4 Sundays a month) every part of his being is expressing what God has done in his life. You feel it, even if you don’t know his story, and it’s a beautiful thing.

But then the other person who plays drums about once a month is also a Christian, and is one of the least expressive drummers I’ve ever seen. He keeps rhythm but doesn’t look like he’s worshiping at all (that’s not to say he isn’t in his way, though).

My point is that just having musicians who are believers doesn’t guarantee anything—certainly not a more meaningful worship experience for others. So I’m with you. What I do think is important, though, is that everyone prays together before the service, regardless of where they are in their personal walk.

I think you it the nail on the head.
It is interesting to here people talk about this. I find it interesting to here them say that a non-christian cannot worship God and that is the main role of the band, to be leading others in worship. I just cannot get over that statement. I think about it this way, if I went to play music for devil worshipers and we were playing songs to satan, I would be hearing those songs and the words. I would be fully aware of what was going on and the lyrics, there is no way I could avoid them and have them leave an impact on me. I would say the same for people singing/playing worship music to God. There is no way you could not here those words and have them effect you in some way.

Also, I think the struggle here is what you said, we want to make an issue that is gray into black and white. If we hold standards of who can be on stage, then we are all in trouble. I think this is where the legalism can really get involved and this idea that if you are going to be on stage you have to “act” like you are worshiping (I had a worship leader tell me that one time) and where a tie, and smile a lot, etc….

It seems like an argument that leads to no where. Usually that is what happens with arguments that are very gray. good discussion here on the blog though.

If everything we do is worship, and we encourage people to invite friends and neighbors to help at community outreach and service projects, then doesn’t the question answer itself? Or is it more that when a believer performs a service that it’s done in an attitude of worship?

Seth-

The danger, when stringing out that thought, is that non-Christians shouldn’t even be a part of the church then. And if that is the case then church should never be about evangelism, and that would be a scary thing.

It’s funny because I doubt I would have become a Christian if it weren’t for a friend that invited me to play on the worship team. God used my involvement on a worship team to bring certain people into my life that really changed me and forced me to think.

You obviously need to be very discerning if you choose to go this route, but I don’t see anything intrinsically sinful in having a non-Christian play an instrument in a worship team.

First let me say, great stuff. I always enjoy discussions like this that invoke thought and self-reflection. I think a lot would depend on the situation. We have no problems having non-Christians serving in work service programs (lawn mowing, food shelter, building project, etc), but putting them apart of the service is gasps and frowns. I don’t think you can say “yes” or “no” to this, as with any gray area of discussion.

Man, you made me actually think on this one. Rough.

As a working musician and non-Christian, I’ve always been a little puzzled by this question. I’ve been invited to play in churches literally dozens of times and I’m glad to do so, because I like the person who invited me and out of respect for your faith. Sort of a favor-to-a-friend thing.

In fact I enjoy playing in churches, even if I don’t subscribe to your beliefs. I dress appropriately, don’t pick my nose, and I chat nicely with members of the congregation afterwards. And they always thank me for coming, which is nice.

When I’m playing, I try to present the music the very best I can. No disrespect to Kyle, but the message is up to you; I don’t “express” an opinion about the notes, or even the lyrics. I’ve sung in your choirs and I’ve played from your altars. I’ve conducted mixed ensembles. Hopefully, I’ve done a good job and that improved your worship experience. And even as a non-Christian, I’m fine with all that.

So my point is, it’s hard to see how my faith affects your worship experience. It’s ultimately a personal thing.

Hope this helps.

–rick

ironically, just by BEING, we are in a state of Worship to God b/c He created us: whether or not a person believes in him in this instance, alone is irrelevant-. i do not think that it is a terrible thing if a non-believing person would like to participate in the team, perhaps not leadership nec, but playing an instrument or whatever: truth is, if they are inquiring, then there IS something about the eternal God that is drawing them and in turn~ may lead them right to the foot of the Cross. NLC in c/springs does and Easter production~ The Thorn every year, along w/ a few other churches around the country and i happen to know for a fact that many non-believing people have participated in the R-Rated Passion Play….and through the course of it: have given their lives to Christ. amazing. i love that. so yeah, i don’t think it’s a problem tyler.

Great question and great discussion. I appreciate many things being said here and thought I would add my own two cents. I’ve had to answer and deal with this question because I am a youth leader who leads a youth worship band (and students are always at different places of their faith journey). My thought is similar to what you guys are saying, but it’s that if someone wants to be there and worship and has musical abilities, then I will take it case by case, but will most likely allow him or her in. In a world where I have to practically hog-tie kids to spend time with them, I will do nearly everything in my power to bring in a kid who wants to meet with me/spend time with me/be apart of something I’m doing. Again, though its case by case.

Additionally a big part of this is that I believe my role as the worship team leader means that it is also my role to disciple each member individually. That does a couple things; I get to pour into that teen and help to further point them to Christ, I get to be a part of there life and know them well and therefore will have a better say as to whether or not this person can be a representative of the group. Great post and thoughts. Keep bringing these conversations up, Tyler.

I will stretch this further…..I was approach by a pastor to play in his church…but later on he told me ‘under certain condition’ that I have to be re-baptized and take his membership class…otherwise I can’t play.

He approached me.
He later on gave me ‘conditions’ before I can play.
Uhmm…what?

May not even answer your question Tyler…but I’ve been in different situation that even Christians reject other Christians because they don’t belong to the same denomination, don’t speak in the same *cough* tongue**cough* language..don’t get baptized the same way, etc. .It took me years before I opened up and started playing again.

Just had to share my experience.

And it’s almost always the drummer. Why are atheists & agnostics such good drummers? How come the drummer gets paid, but not the guy on keys?

I say let em play.

It’s an interesting thing.

A church I was once a youth pastor at didn’t have more than 1-2 people in the congregation who were at all musically inclined, so they hired musicians to play every week. The guitarist’s girlfriend came with them every week and sat in the front row. As they got to know her, found out she had been a Christian at one point, but had made some choices that had moved her away from God. As she started making decisions to rededicate her life, she eventually came on staff as the worship leader and her boyfriend eventually came to Christ as well. (this was a drawn out 4-5 year process…but nonetheless, they’re both following Christ now)

But it’s one of those things I never would have believed if I hadn’t been there to see it myself.

I think it may be kind of like women in ministry…it’s contextual. If a woman leading a congregation is going to a major issue for the congregation, that’s probably not going to be the best place for her to be serving. If having non-Christians on stage is going to pose a significant issue for a particular congregation, that may not be the right context to use hired musicians.

that’s a good point yonas: Christians of discriminate against one another, and that isn’t what being Christ is all about. sorry your experiences weren’t as friendly as they could have been. and i think such rules and regulations are disastrous in the body of Christ.

Thanks Ash!!

I agree it’s a gray area–I could come up with a persuasive argument for either side.

For me it’s the authenticity question — which may or may not be related to a person’s faith. Do the people on the team support the greater vision of the church?

I’m someone who focuses my eyes on each member of the worship team when I worship. Big church / little church — doesn’t matter. Over time I get to know the faces of the team. But what if I never see these people at any time other than when they’re scheduled to play? That doesn’t sit right with me.

This all comes from my current (past 2+ years) view of the church: that it is not a weekly service to perform but a movement of people who serve (seven days a week). I’d much rather have a small team of people committed to the mission versus a large team of wishy-washies (unchurched and churched alike).

[...] This past week he wrote a post about “non-Christians” being in the worship band in the front of the church. I love that Tyler is addressing an issue that is coming to the forefront in a lot of the major churches in America. My main concern here is that we too often treat this issue as black and white and I don’t think we… [...]

Ugh! I freaking love non-Christians doing ministry of any shape, form, or fashion. Probably because I came to Christ by working at a Christian summer camp as a non-believer. And one of my favorite things growing up, basically the only time that I ever felt connected and not judged by the church as a non-believer was when I was allowed to play bass in the youth group worship band.

The truth is, as a non-believer, my issue was never Christ, but the Christians around me. And when I had difficult questions to ask, my voice had no credibility. The same questions I struggle with and ask now are looked at as inspiring or radical. And this was a big problem for me.

Being allowed into the worship was so crucial because it was the first time anyone had really allowed me to worship God. Which is funny. We’re so focused on getting people to Christ but we set up a lot of obstacles along the way. If I worship God in the pews, I’m being watched. Everyone’s waiting for me to stand up for the alter call. “When’s he gonna do it? Is today the day? Has all my hard evangelizing paid off???” But when you’re up on stage a part of the worship team, you’re allowed to enjoy God. People aren’t judging you because in some strange way it’s as if you’ve been spoken for. And it’s so huge to have credibility amongst believers. Because until then, it feels like a fraternity. And apparently I had to be hazed to understand.

thank you for being simple and accurate. best answer ever. haha. i too came to Christ playing bass and working at a Christian Summer camp as a non-Believer. I think discernment is the best answer for everything. and also, you notice that the people in favor of it are people who have been transformed by it. While for the most part everyone else seems to have a hesitancy which strikes my curiosity.

The Church is a group of people commited to worshiping God together.Church is not a building not a social club infact Church is a heart thing and our worship of God should be from the heart in Spirit and in Truth as Jesus tells us in John 4 when speaking to a non Christian before her convertion to Himself. So how can a non Christian worship God in Spirt and in Truth.
I take “in truth” to mean that this true worship is a response to true views of God and is shaped and guided by true views of God.
This is what he meant when he said, “This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. In vain do they worship me” (Matthew 15:8-9). When the heart is far from God, worship is vain, empty, non-existent. The experience of the heart is the defining, vital, indispensable essence of worship.
So how can a non Christian be involved in any part of Christian worship.

I guess I would say that Church shouldn’t be for evangelism, but Christians should be. And I think a church that actually disciples its people would be attractive to non-believers.

I have really enjoyed reading the comments on this subject but I have to stand firm on God’s word concerning being unequally yoked. If we are to not be unequally yoked in marriage, business or anything that requires partnering in, then certainly we should not be trying to lead God’s people into His thrown room of grace with someone who doesn’t know Him as their personal God and savior. To me, that is the epitome of unequally yoked since we as believers are in fact the bride of Christ. I want to see God’d kingdom increased as much as the next person, but I think He is the One who draws the people to Himself, not the worship team or any other ministry.

How do you reconcile this with your job or grocery shopping? Do you need to make sure the cashier is a Christian or all your co workers are Christians?

If they are on the worship team with me the answer would be yes.

Who did Jesus put into His ministry to bring others to a saving faith that were not believers themselves?