Cursed

Tough question. Would we consider Job cursed? I don’t know if a believer can be cursed, maybe disciplined. For an unbeliever I think anything goes.

nicodemusatnite.blogspot.com

It’s definitely an interesting question that won’t have a great answer. If God is really the same yesterday, today and forever, then one would have to argue that He still does curse…but what does it really mean to curse in terms of God? If Job was really cursed like Jonathan questioned, then I would absolutely say that God curses today. I don’t know enough of the original language to dive into the meaning or context of what the OT was talking about.

There were curses explicitly built into the Old Covenant. The New Covenant is built on better promises, and I don’t think we have any information that would suggest there are curses built in, except perhaps aimed at those who reject Christ. Whether this applies to Christians (can we or can’t we reject him?) is another question.

Oh, one more…Paul seems to utter a curse against anyone who preaches a different Gospel. So that’s something for preachers and teachers to beware.

But the main point, I think, of the whole of Scripture, is that God is standing ready to bless us if only we’ll honor him.

This always falls back to God is the same yesterday, today and forever. Jesus was part of the cursing, just as He was part of the creation of the earth. If anything, this dispels peoples ideas that Jesus came to be something different than the God of the Old Testament. Jesus carried all of these attributes but instead broke them out of the law and elevated them into holiness.

If we look at the Book of Revelation, there is plenty of cursing going on. Does that make Jesus or God any less loving? Nope. It is simply part of their awesome being as Lord of All and Righteous Bridegroom, King and Judge.

I know that is difficult for the ultra-grace camp to swallow but it is all there in the Bible.

[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Ben Lemery. Ben Lemery said: Just commented on a new blog post from @tylerbraun: Cursed http://bit.ly/bjBcED // may give you a brain cramp if you really think about it. [...]

No, not cursed, I don’t think the Bible uses those words. Maybe tested, although we could be talking about something very similar when it comes down to it. The problem with cursing and Job is that it was not something from God if it was a curse, it was only that God allowed the devil to test him.

I don’t totally disagree Seth, but this idea that God only blesses today is tough for me to see. Does God really not cause any bad things in our lives? And if he does, couldn’t some of those be cursing us for something we’ve done?

“Whom he loves he disciplines.” So yes, I’d agree God causes bad stuff to happen sometimes. More often, I think, we reap what we sow. Someone who sleeps around and gets a disease could say God cursed him for his behavior, but it’s really that God didn’t specially protect him from harm.

And maybe that’s what cursing is all about. Even in the Law, the curses essentially amounted to God removing his protection, allowing blight and mildew, defeat in battle, infertility (though that last one might look like more of an outright curse).

wow I just wrote a really long response and realized I wasn’t answering the question you asked. So instead of writing a long theological exploration, I guess my response is…

Yes.

and

No.

That is, Christ bears the curse of sin and unfaithfulness, and as much as we are united in Christ, we are under no such curse.

Yet the New Testament is very clear that how we live is really important and God cares deeply. Shoot, God kills Ananias and Sapphira for lying about how much proceeds of land they had sold they gave to the church, and Paul hints at the idea that there are Christians who are sick because of sin.

I guess more importantly is to ask why God would curse his people. It seems the abundant prophetic message is for failing to live as the unique people God had called Israel and Judah to be, a monotheistic group that was also just and welcoming and treated the powerless well. In as much as all these sins are unfaithfulness to God in a worship sense, they are unfaithful to God because they are usually of an assumption that somehow we merit being set apart from the world, or that we can take advantage of our position with God as set apart.

I find Lesslie Newbigin incredibly helpful in his discussion on election when he states that if we focus on the how, we miss the more important question of why. God elects people to be on mission, to be a part of a community that is extending His love ever further. I think the similar question here should be not whether or not God continues to curse, but what sort of failure brings about God’s cursing.

I think that failure is a failure to take God seriously and a failure to take God’s love of the world seriously.

So does God curse? yes and no. But in Jesus, God also curses God in place of humanity. And perhaps the better question than if God is continuing to curse people is to ask am I taking ALL of God’s calling seriously?

As one side note, I think it very possible that the way that God curses is not so much in an active sense but in a disengaging sense. God’s curse of Israel is primarily manifest in removing his protection and allowing Israel to reap that which it has sown. I think it dangerous to talk about God as being one who wants to smite, and think that a good case could be made that all of God’s judgments and “cursings” are in actuality a function of love, and offer the hope of a redemptive opportunity. In that light, I think CS Lewis got it right when he said something along the lines of “In the end there are those who say to God “thy will be done.” And there are those to whom God says “thy will be done.”"

Great comment Bryan. And I agree with you especially on that last part that God’s cursing could be more of a disengagement.

Thanks Tyler. One thing that I would add is that I have been discovering lately that there is not much difference between knowing an outcome and choosing not to intervene and causing that outcome. As it stands with the cursing thing, I prefer the idea that it is God allowing us our wishes, but I think that in reality this could still be portrayed as God causing it.

In a sense, it’s a both and. God’s cursing is us being handed over to our desires, but in a sense it is also God’s doing because he’s the only one who could stop it anyways. It’s made me think as much as people like to argue over predestination type issues that there just really isn’t that much difference. It’s also led me to really embrace that Newbigin quote I hinted at (will try to put it up on my blog today)

Seth wrote tow things that struck me.

1. “I’d agree God causes bad stuff to happen sometimes”

I don’t know if I would agree that God causes bad things to happen, as much as He allows them to happen. To me, that is a big difference.

2. “… could say God cursed him for his behavior, but it’s really that God didn’t specially protect him from harm.”

This I really do agree with. If we are not living in the will of God, we should not be surprised by His withholding of his protection.

So, in answer to Tyler’s question: No, I don’t think that God curses, but it might as well be a curse if His protection/favor is withheld.

Two, not tow. #typingishard

It seems to me that cursing/withholding protection in fact make God at the same level of moral responsibility for the outcome, so while it makes more sense to some of us (myself included) to say that it’s God withholding protection, I can also affirm those saying that it is God actively cursing because in either predicament we don’t really resolve God of what goes against our moral sensibilities.